PLD vs WAR: testing

[KumaAkuma]

I've had plenty of discussions about various Paladin gear builds over the course of the last month. What you're saying isn't some grand revelation that's big news. What I described were the results of one particular build that proved to be ineffective. Considering WAR DPS tank is not as effective as it was I highly doubt PLD would be although I have yet to try it in a situation that matters. Accuracy was not an issue with my enmity build. Dropping much of it for higher damage I suspect wouldn't produce the results that would be desirable for an MMO's main tank and my linkshell doesn't have gimpy pick-up-group MNKs and gimpy pick-up-group DPS.

I'm eager to see the results of different Paladin builds, along with the speed of the kill and the DPS of the DD's but until I see something that shows otherwise i'm going to remain under my initial impression that WAR remains a superior tank.

I don't do pugs, our monks are geared too. You described a tank setup that's not optimal when it comes to hate for both War and Pld. I did not say go full DD setup and neglect your defenses, I said that people shouldn't go overboard the emnity gear, because using only emnity gear is not the way to gain good hate.

Plus you can't have a discussion about War vs Pld, make a bunch of arguements, and then take them back because the Pld build is supposedly too weak.

[DarthTaru]

I didn't take back any argument.

My argument was and remains that WAR is still a superior tank. It was before the hotfix. It remains so after the hotfix. My LS completes five chest runs in 18 minutes. This isn't accomplished with weak damage and I don't hold hate against that sort of damage by being a tank that needs advice from someone arguing the time of the PLD has come and that enmity isn't an optimal stat to use on equipment such as belts which is where a large fraction of mine comes from.

If you're instead melding on body and headpieces and using it over Heavy DL and going for attack and additional damage and holding hate against MNK's capable of killing Miser before it moves to the poison pool (as I am) than by all means post your data.
Otherwise crawl back under your bridge.

[syntaxlies]

that is good to know, but now we have to test the enmity generation with another test ^^
ty for the info!

War already has excellent enmity genera taion, so even if palidan is better it won't matter cause war is good enough, and a better

[indira]

2.0 comes war will have crap def like everyone else is what im betting.

[Duelle]

2.0 comes war will have crap def like everyone else is what im betting.

I hope the devs are paying attention to the discussions and even the playing field for PLD and WAR by the time 2.0 comes. If they use the suggestions mentioned on these boards, all the better.

[LackingLadyLover]

What you ask for : PLD being a better or equal tank than WAR.

What SE sees: Nerf warriors, leave PLD as is.

[Alerith]

What you ask for : PLD being a better or equal tank than WAR.

What SE sees: Nerf warriors, leave PLD as is.

Technically speaking, that would still work. PLD is functional, WAR is more desirable. So whether they buff PLD to WAR's level or nerf WAR to PLD's level, we are still left with two functional tanks.

[LackingLadyLover]

The above is why I'm losing faith in the MMO community.
"Nerf everything except what I play" mentality, even in a game that is currently pure PVE with no PVP at all.
Hint: If a class is good in a game in which you can freely switch classes, it only helps you, never hurts you.

[Judge_Xero]

I strongly disagree here. Off-healing not only takes a bit of the load off the WHM, but it's great for hate building as well. While not all fights allow you to do it properly, fights like Ifrit, where you have melee in proximity of your casting range, are easy to target with the Function keys, and Holy Succor will usually cure all they need while still giving you a decent push in enmity.

You view it as a cumbersome distraction, but I really don't feel it's like this at all. Sub-targeting isn't really an issue if you use function keys, and even if you don't, it isn't all that hard to tab through to your target depending on your positioning. Plus it isn't going to cost you much enmity at all, assuming you're curing someone who needs it where you would gain moderate enmity AND cure yourself for half that amount.

Just to add into this statement. Are people not aware that you can select a target from your party list? Why would you TAB or Funtion to someone, when you could just click on their name. (I realize that this isn't possible with a gamepad)

What you ask for : PLD being a better or equal tank than WAR.

What SE sees: Nerf warriors, leave PLD as is.

If you've been following the changes to War and Pld, you will notice that this isn't the case.
SE is actually doing a decent job on not Nerfing War. Losing a bit of damage for SC and gaining
a Parry buff, to stack with other moves, was a great way to balance War as a tank. Unfortunately you have to do more than SC combo now to get the full potential out of it. You'll have to press 5 buttons instead of 3. But you could also make a Macro for it I guess if 5 buttons is too much.


As far as the Thread Title goes. From testing on PLD before and after patch. The best setup is to just stack
as much Vit and Mnd as you can, up to Cap (300ish)
Get some good Acc Rings.
Cause PLD enmity generation is in it's combo's, not enmity gear. (not saying extra ENM+ gear is useless, it just doesn't give you the best bang for the buck on PLD)
Rampart
Fast Blade -->Flat Blade (10 second combo)
Outmaneuver
Sentinel
War Drum
Divine Veil (cause you may need heals by this point anyways)
You get that off at the start of a battle, and just go through your rotation of buffs and
FB combo
Takes a few seconds longer to build hate compared to SC combo. But it's way
tougher to break.

[Vanguard319]

Uhm it takes a lot longer to kill it on Pld and still Pld only took 80% of the damage War took?

I can believe it, Paladin has access to more damage mitigation skills than Warrior, and Aegis boon is essentially negative damage (HP gain) the warrior may do more damage, but he has no shield, and can't use skills that require one.