PLD vs WAR: testing

[KumaAkuma]

Whats so suprising about that?

If the Pld did 25.39 dps and the War did 68.50 dps then that would mean that the Pld takes 68,50/25,39 = 2,69 times more time to kill a mob with the same hp.

That means that in the short period the War needed to kill the mob and took 4171 damage, the Pld only took 3255/2,69 = 1.210 damage. Which would mean that the War took 3,5 times more damage than the Pld.

That's a lot.

[Delsus]

The thing is PLD is supposed to have low damage output but alot more survivability and more hate tools than raw damage (cures and shield for example), WAR is supposed to have DD amounts of damage output, but less survivability and less hate tools (provoke and raw damage).

This makes both jobs situational do you need to sacrifice raw damage for survivability and hate control, or is it vital you have high dps? For the formor use a PLD, for the latter use a WAR.

The problem is SE's fixation with speed runs right now, making dps important which is a big reason why WAR is perfered over PLD.

[Molly_Millions]

For some anecdotal evinidence: My group had a way easier time last night with a PLD tank than a WAR tank in the moogle fight. Don't let enyone tell you pld isn't usefull. WAR is just preferred in most cases.

[Hyrist]

If the Pld did 25.39 dps and the War did 68.50 dps then that would mean that the Pld takes 68,50/25,39 = 2,69 times more time to kill a mob with the same hp.

That means that in the short period the War needed to kill the mob and took 4171 damage, the Pld only took 3255/2,69 = 1.210 damage. Which would mean that the War took 3,5 times more damage than the Pld.

That's a lot.

That's not only a lot, but it adds evidence to counter the mantra that killing the monster faster is by default safer. "The sooner we kill it, the less damage it deals." just got shut down in the eyes of a Paladin. And so long as it holds superior hate, there is less to hold back on the part of other damage dealers.

The thing is PLD is supposed to have low damage output but alot more survivability and more hate tools than raw damage (cures and shield for example), WAR is supposed to have DD amounts of damage output, but less survivability and less hate tools (provoke and raw damage).

This makes both jobs situational do you need to sacrifice raw damage for survivability and hate control, or is it vital you have high dps? For the formor use a PLD, for the latter use a WAR.

The problem is SE's fixation with speed runs right now, making dps important which is a big reason why WAR is perfered over PLD.

Actually the solution does not even need to eliminate speed runs, but rather give PLD more tools to augment the damage of those around him, without the loss of hate generation in doing so. That alone will solve the speed-run problems with PLD.

Idealy, I'd like to see it settled into PLD being the best Stationary tank, while WAR maintains as the best kiter.

[Enfarious]

For some anecdotal evinidence: My group had a way easier time last night with a PLD tank than a WAR tank in the moogle fight. Don't let enyone tell you pld isn't usefull. WAR is just preferred in most cases.

I had about the same experience on Ifrit, started as WAR and people had to keep it easy longer and found they could pull hate later in the fight than before when once WAR had 1 SC on it was no worries. When I switched to PLD it became far easier to get/hold hate, mages could go nuts mostly. It also cut down on the strain to healers almost enough that they could both get nukes in between cures regularly. Just a little m.def boost now and I might be able to self heal 75% of the fight, well til I run outta MP spamming Succor.

I think with things as they are now WAR still is beast if Rampage Effect can be maintained. Farming tapers to do 1~2 more fights I had no trouble posting the old SC damage when there were 4~5 mobs hitting me, with 1~2 my SC damage would drop sharply unless Enduring March was up.

[DeadRiser]

Don't laugh at me, but I've been soloing that damn U'ghamaro Ashman for ages to get the mercenary's leggings just because I want to. Before the patch, soloing as a WAR was completely a peice of cake, just took a while to take him down. PLD never lasted as long and sometimes died.

After patch, I'm finding PLD stands and equal chance, and a lot of the time my HP never falls below 1200 unless I get an add. I can also heal myself for over 1k. Can't wait till people realize having a PLD can have parties replace that extra WHM for a DD

[Eagleheart]

For some anecdotal evinidence: My group had a way easier time last night with a PLD tank than a WAR tank in the moogle fight. Don't let enyone tell you pld isn't usefull. WAR is just preferred in most cases.

Query. What role did the Paladin play in said fight?

That is to say, was it a single tank fight? Did you take two? If two, what mobs were the PLD assigned to kite?

Groups that I have been in found Warrior still much better, even with the alteration to S.C. I, personally, as WAR, saw no difference in ease of kiting King/Ruffleface et al.

[Molly_Millions]

/em happily suits up in paly armor once again.

/s put me in coach!

[Valtrex]

What you guys fail to realize is that soloing is a completely pointless test. In solo mode, PLD can Protect and Stoneskin itself. So that gives that to PLD over WAR, but in a pty situation, WAR will have that too. Next.

[Hyrist]

What you guys fail to realize is that soloing is a completely pointless test. In solo mode, PLD can Protect and Stoneskin itself. So that gives that to PLD over WAR, but in a pty situation, WAR will have that -

- at the expense of another party member. The Solo trial makes a good point that you chose to overlook.

The fact that PLD can self-apply should not be overlooked simply because a warrior can delegate damage mitigation to someone else in the same fashion PLD can delegate damage dealing to someone else.

What people are forgetting here is that there is a party structure shift that could be build around this.

A Warrior Set up defers to 2 WHMs and relies upon the Warrior to make up the damage differential.

A Paladin setup defers to a second hybrid or damage class rather than a second WHM.

If SE can make this exchange more common and easily functional for all circumstances then there won't be an argument - and both the fundamentals and the functions are both there, as evidenced by PLDs INNATE damage reduction.

A couple things that could assist in this is a much lower interrupt rate for GLD, and either a higher means of MP regeneration, or a larger base MP pool for them.