PLD vs WAR: testing

[Zantetsuken]

Swap the 2nd WHM with a BRD.

It can do good DPS as well as keep the PLD MP up.

I suppose the next test is to see if BRD+PLD can outpace WAR+WHM for Damage and still survive as well.

Duoing a LVL 60-62 mob should be a good test and will help shed some light onto the situation

[MykeMana]

For Tanking-

I tested WAR/PLD against Ifrit and Moogle pre and post patch fix.

On moogle I always get all of them to follow me right after phase 1 on both WAR and PLD on both Pre/Post patch fix. The Steel Cyclone nerf didn't affect it at all. Same with Ifrit, the only difference is I can spam more WS hate skills on PLD than WAR with the enhanced block but WAR still has a significantly higher DPS overall. As for hate management they're both on par. If you lose hate on these fights then you're doing something wrong.

I really depends on taste and party setup. If your DD setup is weak, go WAR. If you like healing your team mates (specially the drgs and monks on ifrit) then go PLD.

Just know your cycle and don't lose hate!

[Enfarious]

In all this, there's a solution that I keep seeing get overlooked, WHMs can DD too, bring 2 for safety let em spam nukes while a PLD heals, they still shouldn't pull hate ever as long as they actually let the PLD cast a succor or 2 for effect. Your pts ttl dps will more than outweigh a WAR tanking in the boss one on one fights.

The one problem I encounter on PLD, is that WHMs are a little to quick on the cure trigger so my succors end up being wastedish landing for 3~400 instead of 1k. Course after the long period of WAR tanking so cures had to be tossed fast it's become habit for many to just keep the tank @100% even if it's not the most efficient use of MP.

In hi mob count areas WAR will still reign because Rampage will stay capped and SC will continue to rape weaker mobs. With a reasonable crit rate to boot heals become almost unnecessary so WHM can go DD happy.

[Zaaku]

In all this, there's a solution that I keep seeing get overlooked, WHMs can DD too, bring 2 for safety let em spam nukes while a PLD heals, they still shouldn't pull hate ever as long as they actually let the PLD cast a succor or 2 for effect. Your pts ttl dps will more than outweigh a WAR tanking in the boss one on one fights.

The one problem I encounter on PLD, is that WHMs are a little to quick on the cure trigger so my succors end up being wastedish landing for 3~400 instead of 1k. Course after the long period of WAR tanking so cures had to be tossed fast it's become habit for many to just keep the tank @100% even if it's not the most efficient use of MP.

In hi mob count areas WAR will still reign because Rampage will stay capped and SC will continue to rape weaker mobs. With a reasonable crit rate to boot heals become almost unnecessary so WHM can go DD happy.

You have to remember though without Cleric Stance on we're all but going 2:1 for Dmg/MP cost, which is horrifying. Not to mention with the AF head piece and general lack of ever stacking any Intel and most WHM's considering the -40 M.acc Tempest as standard issue WHM's are on the by and by very very bad nukers. Sure they can do it in a pinch if the MP if in excess and alittle bit of damage helps. However counting on WHM dmg consistently is going to be very difficult because most WHM will resist the notion. For good reason too. Why make life overly complicated for 3 PT members by splitting the roles and sharing numerous responsible in a fight when it is so much easier to do what each job is designed to do?

[Venat]

PLD needs something like... Improved Flash, More damaging counter attack. When i say Improved Flash I mean its gotta Blind the enemy... mainly towards the PLD that used it. There needs to be some kinda Magical DEF added to PLD and PLD needs better Cures... Something like... trait Cures on yourself give you 5% phy DEF for 3sec.

PLD needs to be the Job you choose for HARD hitting NMs. Mainly the ones that dish out powerful magical attacks.

WAR is fine but it needs to stay as a DD type more so then a tank. Warriors are good jobs to throw in with a PLD to DD next to the Powerful enemies. But they should be nothing more but side DD. I do personally think Steel Cyclone is unbalanced for WAR. Needs to be more single attacking.

[Duelle]

You have to remember though without Cleric Stance on we're all but going 2:1 for Dmg/MP cost, which is horrifying. Not to mention with the AF head piece and general lack of ever stacking any Intel and most WHM's considering the -40 M.acc Tempest as standard issue WHM's are on the by and by very very bad nukers. Sure they can do it in a pinch if the MP if in excess and alittle bit of damage helps. However counting on WHM dmg consistently is going to be very difficult because most WHM will resist the notion. For good reason too. Why make life overly complicated for 3 PT members by splitting the roles and sharing numerous responsible in a fight when it is so much easier to do what each job is designed to do?

The funny thing is that this can be applied to PLD and off-healing. Makes sense, too.

PLD needs to be the Job you choose for HARD hitting NMs. Mainly the ones that dish out powerful magical attacks.

Niche gameplay sucks in the long run. I'd like to see Final Fantasy break out of that bad habit and give us multiple tank and healer classes so that everyone isn't crammed into PLD or WHM or WAR.

[Andrien]

Niche gameplay sucks in the long run. I'd like to see Final Fantasy break out of that bad habit and give us multiple tank and healer classes so that everyone isn't crammed into PLD or WHM or WAR.

I disagree because PLD isn't good at anything else but tanking, and WHM isn't good at anything else but healing to keep the party alive. They should be first choice on the list for what they do best.

[Frein]

You have to remember though without Cleric Stance on we're all but going 2:1 for Dmg/MP cost, which is horrifying. Not to mention with the AF head piece and general lack of ever stacking any Intel and most WHM's considering the -40 M.acc Tempest as standard issue WHM's are on the by and by very very bad nukers. Sure they can do it in a pinch if the MP if in excess and alittle bit of damage helps. However counting on WHM dmg consistently is going to be very difficult because most WHM will resist the notion. For good reason too. Why make life overly complicated for 3 PT members by splitting the roles and sharing numerous responsible in a fight when it is so much easier to do what each job is designed to do?

This is why I think Chrian Zabran's Tempest is unnecessary for most content. It's bad for nuking and the massive healing potency bonus usually just isn't necessary. I gear my whm with a double melded Wand of Tremors and the Gridanian GC shield instead, which lets me give out some pretty decent stone/stonera combos while keeping my HP above 2.6k.

[Enfarious]

You have to remember though without Cleric Stance on we're all but going 2:1 for Dmg/MP cost, which is horrifying. Not to mention with the AF head piece and general lack of ever stacking any Intel and most WHM's considering the -40 M.acc Tempest as standard issue WHM's are on the by and by very very bad nukers. Sure they can do it in a pinch if the MP if in excess and alittle bit of damage helps. However counting on WHM dmg consistently is going to be very difficult because most WHM will resist the notion. For good reason too. Why make life overly complicated for 3 PT members by splitting the roles and sharing numerous responsible in a fight when it is so much easier to do what each job is designed to do?

Didn't mean for both at the same time, one remains a dedicated healer, the other nukes and heals in a pinch, but mostly is there to nuke and buff melees not the tank. That being the case that one that is primarily a nuker could Cleric Stance and gear to DD. Cnj/Whm can post a surprising amnt of dmg if/when they try.

Everyone is expected to play in an "Oh shit" capacity in most content. thm/arc/brd all heal/raise when needed a cnj/whm playing a primarily nuke-centric role shouldn't screw them up that bad.

[Enfarious]

Niche gameplay sucks in the long run. I'd like to see Final Fantasy break out of that bad habit and give us multiple tank and healer classes so that everyone isn't crammed into PLD or WHM or WAR.

Agreed, but they gave us more than one tank capable class and more than one heal capable class in XI. This game is far to young to start comparing it to games that have 15+ different classes/jobs. I don't want 5 jobs that all heal the same way and equally well, carbon copies just provide the illusion of choice.

I disagree because PLD isn't good at anything else but tanking, and WHM isn't good at anything else but healing to keep the party alive. They should be first choice on the list for what they do best.

If a class/job can only fulfill one role then they should absolutely outshine any other class/job in that role. The alternative would be to give them the capacity to fill more than one role equally well. In the case of PLD that means making it able to DD, WHM can to a point already.

Once upon a time it was my understanding that jobs were meant to be specializations of a class, implying that they'd do one thing extremely well at the cost of not doing others so well. That would have meant that PLD, DRG, MNK, BLM were actually the ones that work as they should. WHM, WAR and BRD all trying to fill 2 roles, would actually be the ones that are currently wrong, as they all have job abilities that spread across more than a single focus.