Retainer Quick Ventures Return "Non-Disposable" Moonward Gear

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

Date & Time: April 12, 2022 onward (release of patch 6.10)
Frequency: whenever a Quick Venture is completed
World name: Jenova (and all other Worlds)
Character name: Aurelle Deresnels (and all other characters)
Retainer name: all retainers
NPC name: N/A
Monster name: N/A
Class/Level: any
Party or solo: any
In-game time: any
Area and coordinates: any Summoning Bell
Housing: N/A
Steps:
1. Send retainers out on Quick Ventures.
2. Check the results upon the Quick Ventures' completion.
3. Repeat steps 1-2 until a Quick Venture returns a piece of Moonward gear.
4. Examine the tooltip of the Moonward gear to verify that it cannot be desynthesized or sold to vendors.
5. Go to one's Grand Company headquarters.
6. Speak to the [Grand Company] Personnel Officer and select "Undertake supply and provisioning missions" -> Expert Delivery.
7. Observe that the Expert Delivery turn-in list does not include the Moonward gear.
8. Observe that as a direct consequence of the results of steps 4 and 7, there is no way to obtain value from the Moonward gear other than by wearing it or using it for glamour.

It is normal for a tomestone set, such as the Moonward set, to be "non-disposable" in this manner - not desynthesizable, sellable to vendors, or usable for Grand Company Seals via Expert Delivery - for some time. In particular, my understanding of the historical precedent is that the highest item level set out of all sets farmable without high-end content is always non-disposable to prevent players from accidentally getting rid of gear they intend to wear, and becomes disposable as soon as it is superseded under those limitations.

Under this precedent, one would expect that the item level 570 Moonward gear would become disposable as of 6.10, with the item level 580 Limbo set becoming farmable and superseding it. However, the bug report stating that the Moonward gear remains non-disposable was filed as "Working As Intended".

If the Moonward gear is indeed intended to remain non-disposable for the duration of patch 6.1, then it must be a bug that Quick Ventures can currently return Moonward gear. This is due to certain key components of Quick Ventures' value proposition to the player:

A) Quick Ventures are self-sustaining by providing gear that can be converted to Grand Company Seals via Expert Delivery, and from there to more Ventures;
B) Quick Ventures always provide an item from which the receiving player character can obtain value;
C) Quick Ventures are the exclusive source of certain high-value tradeable items such as the General-Purpose dyes.

The inclusion of non-disposable gear on the Quick Ventures loot table violates proposition B) immediately, as the player character may not be able to wear the gear (due to level), interested in wearing the gear (due to having something better for stats), or interested in glamouring that appearance (due to having a preferred glamour for that role and slot). A player character in such a situation is left with negative value from the non-disposable gear piece, as their only options are to spend time discarding it for no value or have it take up storage space.

The same inclusion also violates proposition A), and more so the better geared the retainer is, as non-disposable gear cannot be converted to Grand Company Seals and better-geared retainers can bring back higher item levels of gear.

The violation of propositions A) and B) discourages players from sending retainers on Quick Ventures, especially the best-geared retainers with access to the most desired loot table. This in turn reduces the supply of Quick Venture exclusive items falling under proposition C), raising the prices for players who seek those items and causing economic upset. It is surely not intentional to raise the price of General-Purpose dyes by producing frustration in those players who can generate the supply, as is evident in the posts on the previous bug report thread.

Therefore, the inclusion of non-disposable gear on the Quick Ventures loot table must be a bug. Please rectify this by either rendering the Moonward gear disposable or removing it from the Quick Ventures loot table.


Connection Specs:
- Irrelevant - occurs across all connections


-=-=-=-=- System Information -=-=-=-=-

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Irrelevant - occurs across all systems

[Iscah]

Just keep them in your inventory for now, if you have the space, and the retainer can't bring you a second copy of it. The more you have, the lower the chance of getting another piece.

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

Just keep them in your inventory for now, if you have the space, and the retainer can't bring you a second copy of it. The more you have, the lower the chance of getting another piece.

That's an awful burden on inventory space, especially since I level and gear many jobs, and retainers very much can bring back gear you already have. I've wound up having to give levelling gear to my GC before just to accept a second copy from a retainer.

[Iscah]

I've wound up having to give levelling gear to my GC before just to accept a second copy from a retainer.

I have never seen this happen, despite carrying a considerable amount of retainer-brought gear in my inventory while trying to corner them into bringing back a specific piece.

On the other hand, while this is anecdotal and untested, emptying out my inventory of a particular gear series seems to trigger an increase in retainers bringing back pieces of that series – suggesting to me that the more pieces you hold, the less likely it is for that piece to be chosen for the retainer to give you.

The only time I've ever had to dispose of something before getting a second copy from a retainer is if I am trying to take something out of their inventory or change their current equipment, not just collecting venture spoils from them.

So, it's maybe not ideal, but if they're not a bug and you're going to keep receiving them, holding onto them is (by my experience) a way to receive less in future.

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

I have never seen this happen, despite carrying a considerable amount of retainer-brought gear in my inventory while trying to corner them into bringing back a specific piece.

...

So, it's maybe not ideal, but if they're not a bug and you're going to keep receiving them, holding onto them is (by my experience) a way to receive less in future.

Well, I have seen it happen, and the Quick Venture loot table is large enough that it would take a very large sample size to establish that it can't happen. So unless you have either patch notes or a sufficiently large and meticulously kept sample for statistical reliability to establish that the rules have changed since late ShB, this is merely a distraction from the bug - even if that did work, I still wouldn't want to hold onto the gear instead of simply not running Quick Ventures.

My inventory space and my play time are far too valuable to want to hold onto up to 79 pieces (19 weapons, 35 armour, 25 accessories) of gear that is completely useless to me because all my level 90 jobs are in better gear and I don't like those particular glams. And much of it would overflow out of my Armoury Chest, because I have gear for nearly every job and many of my level 90 jobs have shed Limbo pieces as they get Radiant / Asphodelos / Augmented Classical / Panthean pieces. (At least the Limbo gear still has a good reason to be non-disposable!) Plus two crafting and gathering sets each - one Ar-Caean for spiritbonding and one Pactmaker's for 6.2 prep - a PvP set so I can queue from anywhere without mixing up my PvP and PvE glams, an Aesthete's set to expert craft in since we have no level 90 expert crafts and the level 80 ones lack challenge in Ar-Caean... you can imagine why I have no room or tolerance for useless junk.

I'm just sending my retainers on different ventures until this is fixed - like bringing me back crafting materials to sell or use in massive crafting batches, which often generate non-stackable collectables. And plenty of other players are doing the same for similar reasons, causing exactly the economic upset I described in my bug report.

[Breakbeat]

This 'problem' has been reported in the past, and staff have moved it to the 'working as intended' forum. You can check there and see threads similar to this already.

Be it useless, unsellable, a burden, an inventory space hog or what have you, that's the way they want it right now.

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

This 'problem' has been reported in the past, and staff have moved it to the 'working as intended' forum. You can check there and see threads similar to this already.

Be it useless, unsellable, a burden, an inventory space hog or what have you, that's the way they want it right now.

That's why I reported retainers returning such gear from Quick Ventures as a bug, and explained why it must be a bug if the Moonward gear is intended to remain non-disposable. I even linked the previous thread that reported the non-disposable status of Moonward gear as a bug.

Two different things, at least one of which must be a bug. Unless you believe that SE intends to destroy the value proposition of Quick Ventures and jack up the dye prices in so doing? That's the only way that both behaviors could be intended.

[Breakbeat]

Retainers returning such gear from ventures has been reported before, and moved to the 'working as intended' forum.

I have no dog in this race or opinion one way or the other. I'm simply reporting fact.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...h-has-no-usage

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...d-in-desynthed

Both of the above are from the 'Working as Intended' forum.

[Aurelle_Deresnels]

Retainers returning such gear from ventures has been reported before, and moved to the 'working as intended' forum.

I have no dog in this race or opinion one way or the other. I'm simply reporting fact.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...h-has-no-usage

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...d-in-desynthed

Both of the above are from the 'Working as Intended' forum.

One of those is the thread I linked that reports the non-disposable status as a bug, and the other has barely any content and doesn't make the economic argument for why retainers returning non-disposable gear is a bug. "Not a bug" filings have been overturned by providing more information before, thus I am providing more information in case that affects the decision.

[Breakbeat]

Okie dokie!