Is GShade allowed?

[Larirawiel]

What exactly do you think the intention of it is? I can tell you that it has literally nothing to do with protecting players, if that's what you meant by good intentions.

They do not want game modifications and parsers. This is the intention. With game modifications you can easily create cheats. But if you do not want to white-/blacklist software explicitely then you have to formulate some unsharp rules in a TOS. But if you formulate the TOS relatively unsharp then it will happen, that other software falls also into that category, although the software has nothing to do with FF14 like antivirus scanners or Discord etc.



Cheers

[Welsper59]

But if you formulate the TOS relatively unsharp then it will happen, that other software falls also into that category, which has nothing to do with FF14 like antivirus scanners or Discord etc.

Why is this a problem for people though? Are people that unreasonably afraid of even the very idea that they could be violating ToS? I would say this whole ordeal should be a learning experience for people. That context factually matters.

Yoshi-P himself has addressed why things like Discord and other unrelated programs are not of concern, even if they do, under technical circumstances, fall under 3rd party programs. They are not directly intended to affect FFXIV. They are not designed to do that. They can't prove you're using these things in a way that proves the programs use is to undermine the rules (e.g. it's on your computer because its for non-FFXIV reasons).

I don't think people fully realize how often many of us violate a services ToS or even real world laws themselves and may not truly know it. Ever used someone else's Netflix or shared yours with another? What about downloaded something from an unofficial source simply out of convenience, even if you otherwise paid for it? You'd be (generally) breaking some ToS. What about driving even 1 over a speed limit? You're literally breaking the law.

SE turning a blind eye in many cases for minor infractions is basically a reflection of reasonableness, akin to why a cop typically will not pull you over for just going slightly over the speed limit... in most areas. Basically they're trying to be nice about it because it's not a big deal in most cases... though it's primarily to do with the fact they can't reasonably prove it without applying some sort of tracker onto your computer. It becomes a big deal when people start abusing that blatantly and abundantly, which is unfortunately why this is being addressed again and seemingly acted upon. The bottom line is to just understand what you're doing and don't be stupid about it.

The kicker about that though? It's business as usual for everyone that isn't streaming addons/plugins that don't give yourself away. Go ahead and use Gshade, ACT, etc. Your risk has not changed for the time being. If you were using it responsibly before, there's no reason you should rethink it now... unless you stream lol. Though Gshade is still probably gonna be given some leeway.

[InkB]

Why is this a problem for people though? Are people that unreasonably afraid of even the very idea that they could be violating ToS? I would say this whole ordeal should be a learning experience for people. That context factually matters.


(.....)

The kicker about that though? It's business as usual for everyone that isn't streaming addons/plugins that don't give yourself away. Go ahead and use Gshade, ACT, etc. Your risk has not changed for the time being. If you were using it responsibly before, there's no reason you should rethink it now... unless you stream lol. Though Gshade is still probably gonna be given some leeway.

Current issue is not that "it only affects streamers". If we dont get official response, this will affect literally everyone who posts their screenshots on any social media (discord included). With current witch-hunt (which is against TOS too but guess we can ignore that part of TOS) it doesnt take much - you could have edited your screenshot with photoshop (which many do) but they dont give a damn. They will report and make up you used gshade.

Before this, you could go back to the 2013 post and say "look, they said its allowed". Now? Just report literally everyone because they mightve used reshade. because their photo has deep-green grass instead of washed out green.

There was already someone posting (not sure which site, saw just snippet of it) that they will go thro social media and report people using gshade "as revenge for the streamer hunt".

[Lauront]

Current issue is not that "it only affects streamers". If we dont get official response, this will affect literally everyone who posts their screenshots on any social media (discord included). With current witch-hunt (which is against TOS too but guess we can ignore that part of TOS) it doesnt take much - you could have edited your screenshot with photoshop (which many do) but they dont give a damn. They will report and make up you used gshade.

Before this, you could go back to the 2013 post and say "look, they said its allowed". Now? Just report literally everyone because they mightve used reshade. because their photo has deep-green grass instead of washed out green.

There was already someone posting (not sure which site, saw just snippet of it) that they will go thro social media and report people using gshade "as revenge for the streamer hunt".

Yes and without clear rules on this front, it comes down to GM discretion. Even if the GMs have clear rules they abide by behind the scenes, the ambiguity won't stop (will encourage) the brigading. No appetite to deal with the brigading? Not hard to see where it'll go.

[Welsper59]

Current issue is not that "it only affects streamers". If we dont get official response, this will affect literally everyone who posts their screenshots on any social media (discord included). With current witch-hunt (which is against TOS too but guess we can ignore that part of TOS) it doesnt take much - you could have edited your screenshot with photoshop (which many do) but they dont give a damn. They will report and make up you used gshade.

Before this, you could go back to the 2013 post and say "look, they said its allowed". Now? Just report literally everyone because they mightve used reshade. because their photo has deep-green grass instead of washed out green.

There was already someone posting (not sure which site, saw just snippet of it) that they will go thro social media and report people using gshade "as revenge for the streamer hunt".

Even the old post wasn't accurate in relation to Gshade though. It was about a specific ENB injector tool. What they say about that does not equate to a different tool or program, even if they function similarly. So realistically, you're still in the same position as you were before lol.

Legally at this point in time, SE would be the biggest idiots to tell you an unofficial 3rd party tool is okay. They'd be opening the flood gates so widely to people trying to validate the limits of what is crossing the line. I'm pretty sure they don't want to annoy their legal department, who likely also report to the higher ups about changes, that the XIV team wants to do something objectively stupid by increasing risk by not having blanket statements to cover their own asses.

[Larirawiel]

Why is this a problem for people though? Are people that unreasonably afraid of even the very idea that they could be violating ToS? I would say this whole ordeal should be a learning experience for people. That context factually matters.

It is in this case not clear whether you violate the TOS or not. But if it is a violation then using Windows or Linux or MacOS would also be a technical one.

The kicker about that though? It's business as usual for everyone that isn't streaming addons/plugins that don't give yourself away. Go ahead and use Gshade, ACT, etc. Your risk has not changed for the time being. If you were using it responsibly before, there's no reason you should rethink it now... unless you stream lol. Though Gshade is still probably gonna be given some leeway.

It does not only affect streamers. It also affects screenshots, which you could have altered with Photoshop/Gimp. If it does look like Gshade then someone could report you. Even if it was Photoshop. And if a GM comes to the same conclusion then your account could be banned.




Cheers

[Welsper59]

It is in this case not clear whether you violate the TOS or not. But if it is a violation then using Windows or Linux or MacOS would also be a technical one.

How is it not clear though when there is a blanket statement? You would factually/legally be in the wrong to think it isn't. Remember, this is legal text. Feelings and misinterpretations do not apply here lol. Harassment is harassment, assault is assault, etc. There are no degrees to violating legal text that literally makes things broad. The only people who, at their discretion, can decide to not enforce something is SE here.

If it does look like Gshade then someone could report you. Even if it was Photoshop. And if a GM comes to the same conclusion then your account could be banned.

Right, but how is that any different than it is now? Literally nothing has changed. I wasn't aware about that post before this ordeal, but even after reading it, it literally changes nothing about what people have been doing up to now. If anyone takes an objective look at the thread, they'd know this. That post was factually not about Gshade. It did not detail exactly what was approved either, other than that specific ENB injector. People are in the wrong if they think approval of one thing automatically approves another without them specifically saying it does (which they haven't).

Again, nothing has changed from back then till now. Even if people were always unaware of it till now, that doesn't change the fact they were risking things by posting. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it at all. It's the exact reason why posting admission of use of 3rd party addons here wouldn't cause you to be banned in the game. Text admission is not good enough to actually ban someone. Similarly, they can't prove it was specifically you that did anything to get the screenshot, even if you did admit to it in a post. Actions in the game are separate from actions on the forums or Reddit or Discord or whatever. Your terms of service are different using the forums than they are playing the game, which is something I think a lot of people don't realize.

This is why I firmly disagree that this affects others. People have always been operating under these same circumstances, they were just too ignorant to realize it. This applies to streamers too, it's just a matter of SE finally cracking down on it or not. Live broadcasting of admission is very different from someone simply sharing a photo. As I said, there has always been a risk, people were just falsely believing otherwise. Hence, we probably won't get a confirmation if it's okay or not. It'd be great for people, don't get me wrong, but they would obviously just be inviting more problems if they do, akin to the rise in all those complaints about PvP addons and the fallout that is happening now. Foresight of negative outcomes is not a strength of many people, including the devs.