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  1. #11
    Player
    Wilford111's Avatar
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    Jul 2017
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    674
    Character
    Faux Ears
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by YukiB View Post
    That's the problem.
    What's the problem?

    Before you answer, I have been reading the forums all day. I've yet to see a problem with Yoshi-P's and SE's stance on third-party addons.
    (1)

  2. #12
    Player kpxmanifesto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,037
    Character
    Last Starfighter
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilford111 View Post
    I've yet to see a problem with Yoshi-P's and SE's stance on third-party addons.
    Well I hope you continue to see no problem with Yoshi P and SE's stance because it seems they're willing to change that and compromise by making enhancements to the HUD and UI.
    (4)

  3. #13
    Player
    LittleImp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1,204
    Character
    Lil Imp
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    It's weird seeing someone who's entire identity revolves around anti-elitism arguing that some third party tools are bad because they make the game too easy and more accessible.
    (10)

  4. #14
    Player

    Join Date
    May 2022
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilford111 View Post
    I've yet to see a problem with Yoshi-P's and SE's stance on third-party addons.
    You mean SE's stance of literally letting countless streamers playing with addons very visible on and publicly in streamer platforms?

    Because that shows a contradiction, that shows SE's approval of addons even if ToS says otherwise, you cant have it both ways.
    And i am certain big streamers have been reported for the use of addons but SE chose to not act upon such reports because afaik only that one JP streamer got banned and that was for a few days, unless there's a huge banwave to all public addon users SE has chosen to approve addons which will inevitably turn this game as bad as wow in time if not stopped.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleImp View Post
    It's weird seeing someone who's entire identity revolves around anti-elitism arguing that some third party tools are bad because they make the game too easy and more accessible.
    Because you confuse anti elitism as pro carebear, the anti elitism targets specifically the mentally unhealthy mentality of connecting one's self worth to video game achievements, that is my problem with such people and design philosophies. For example raiders want to be treated as special and get better rewards than solo players, that is because they unironically believe they are special because they have connected their self worth to video game raiding achievements.
    When you are afraid others are gonna get the same rewards, your attachment to video game achievements is revealed because I never had an issue with solo or casual players getting max gear for example because it is my own personal ability that differentiates me from them, not my gear ilvl.

    An encounter is designed with certain difficulty in mind, that design is thrown out of the window when you try to turn it into easy mode with timer and announcer addons as well using the most broken comb
    (1)
    Last edited by Ralphe2449; 05-13-2022 at 01:06 PM.
    The tryhard elitist is the person who is going to finish their 5 pieces on this created to be beaten """"challenge"""" and then complaint that the baby, slower or less dexterous person are a problem which not only is toxic but indirectly implies that doing this basic created to be beaten task faster is an """achievement""" of """great skill""" which helps to falsely boost the elitist's self worth as that is their true motive, if challenge was truly their desire they would relish in the chance to do more than the rest.
    The healthy person on the other hand will either let people finish their part or assist them for their self worth does not depend on solving basic puzzles created to be beaten, aka as a video game.

  5. #15
    Player
    sagacious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Location
    Ravana-gridania
    Posts
    644
    Character
    Sage Cologne
    World
    Ravana
    Main Class
    Culinarian Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilford111 View Post
    All addons are not equal, but the tos applies to all addons equally. Thank you have a nice day.
    I agree with this statement
    (1)
    sagacious

  6. #16
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphe2449 View Post
    I am not as curious because we have WoW as an example, even though like you said casuals are the majority even in games like WoW that mentality has taken hold since it spreads like a disease if it is tolerated even to lower level content. You would occasionally see topics about some elitist complaining about the performance of someone in heroic dungeons which are equivalent to MSQ dungeons in ff14 where you can literally do them with multiple people dead, a more adequate example would be people demanding meta for a +6 key while people are doing 20s during that time.
    The mentality that comes with said addons is my main concern.
    I don't want to suggest changes as big as DBM like tools cant effect the culture but given how SE designs content, as you point out- I feel, personally, that even if it was sanctioned allowed... it wouldn't be as substantial. Though I respect you feel differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphe2449 View Post
    You are correct, they will always exist, but I honestly dont mind them if they are used secretly by a tiny minority that has to actively hide from SE.

    Right now SE might as well have given their approval when people watch streams with people using similar addons or even basic addons and never getting punished for it even though they are all against the ToS, the previous rule of "use it but be quiet about it" worked as long as we dont have streamers influencing thousands by using addons publicly like that and saying its cool. Because afaik only some JP streamer got banned, there's a ton of western streamers who used addons publicly and didnt get banned.
    The fun part of don't ask don't tell (/s lol). I'm not particularly against addons, as I actually loved them in WoW even when they were annoying due to a patch (but that was in part because Blizzard didn't really care to ensure things worked). I understand some concerns are placed upon them, some of which I can vaguely understand and some of which I feel are stretched. I believe having a publicly allowed parser can do things like it did in WoW, but I don't really believe a private, allowed, would cause many if any issues. Some people may ask to see your parse, which you could simply lie or tell them to go get Thal'd lol. Though similarly I respect the concern, and community management is something difficult to get back on track once you feel you've lost it.. so... conservative approach isn't mystifying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphe2449 View Post
    I will utterly and completely disagree with that, people usually end up tunnel visioning and having the addon or raid leader wake them up to the mechanic because you often see if the raid lead forgets to mention something many people screw up because they depend on addon/raid lead to tell them "Yo, mechanic inbound". Which imo is completely wrong, a raid lead should be there for when there's uncertainty and people have to make a decision quick, not to literally baby sit you and tell you when mechanics happen, that should be personal responsibility.

    Which is a terrible thing because there's many mechanics that require you to track add positioning or some type of visual element that changes over the duration of the encounter that might come from some random direction, so if you are to respond adequately you need to also pay attention to it and not just forget it until the last minute call else you might not have enough time or space to survive.

    This SERIOUS lack of spacial awareness is something very common in WoW's high end content and that is because people never learned the mechanic through in game visual signs to begin with and instead depended on addons or raid leads.

    And its not just "oh our players are getting better", mechanics become far easier when you have a timer or unique mechanic announcing sounds, it literally is easy mode with them which results in dev having to make it even harder to compensate for the use of such addons which leads to more complicated mechanics and further problems, hence why such addons shouldnt be tolerated publicly, let them exist only in the shadows unlike know where they are literally public. And that will also hurt streamers who cant clear without addon help xd
    I think you agree with me but maybe disagree on wording. Because what I meant is that, like a baby sitter raid leader, the tool will keep you hyper informed. GET OUT OF LAVA, STAND IN CIRCLE, GO TO "X" PLAYER. This to me is called awareness, now you might like it if I called it artificial awareness since it wasn't a skill provided by the player but rather by a parrot shouting mechanics.. but functionally it's still awareness.

    As such if a player is more aware, whether naturally or artificially, this has an impact on play ability. Such that I would argue on a aggregate whole such tools have a direct impact in the ability of players and thus allow them to perform better more consistently while using less personal stress / skills. For me in WoW for example I found the tool helpful to casually enjoy harder content, as I can easily follow instructions but I just don't want to memorize the fights lol. Having used the DBM type stuff in WoW (another one existed back then too) I would argue it was a direct impact on my ability to output high performance while also feeling less challenged at the same time. Naturally this impacts perception for both players and developers. "This content is easy" says the player with the professional never wrong parrot- silly statement, and may cause damage to players who don't use the tool (and likely annoyance to the devs). Also messes with statistics and expectations devs have of players. Then again I feel given SE tests their own content, to which I assume, without tools I think they have significantly dampened the damage from the situation and such I am less worried about it and don't care. If someone uses to have a more stress free / easy experience then whatever. In most situations I don't care if someone made it a bit easier in such a way, though I can see how doing it for the hardest content in the game as a race of skill is quite upsetting.

    Personally I don't think being aggressive on banning will help much on the situation, particularly if they don't scan the PCs (in that case, pretty much just hot air even if they punish a few streamers), but I do think adding the things players think are useful without damaging intended gameplay is a smart alleviation to dissuade more people from feeling the need to use the third party tools. Also may consider adding an official framework to which you could have even more control over the situation, but /shrug. The whole situation will feel like variations of losing no matter what lol. I've been okay with the don't ask don't tell type policy but certainly I see ultimate's can make that more frustrating for those who want to show off their talents (particularly speaking ultimate, as otherwise I generally think people playing how they want is fine so long as it's not like toggle god mode or infinite gil hacks lol).
    (1)
    Last edited by Shougun; 05-15-2022 at 09:03 AM.

  7. #17
    Player IdowhatIwant's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    934
    Character
    Jimbo Jimbo
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphe2449 View Post
    An issue I am seeing is that people use the term addons to refer to literally anything which is an issue because:

    There's harmless addons like ones that fix helmets for hrothgar

    There's possibly toxic addons like dps meters that CAN lead to toxicity
    These two examples will equally affect FFXIV sales.
    When people act toxic in game for a DPS meter, it may cause a player to leave.
    When a player posts screen shots of a Hrothgar wearing a helmet online, and in game you can't display that helmet with out an add on, people will leave.

    Both are a direct result of players using add ons in ways they shouldn't.
    Your trolls are getting to Titanman level stupidity.
    (1)

  8. #18
    Player
    Rolder50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    1,615
    Character
    Alarasong Elaha
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant View Post
    When a player posts screen shots of a Hrothgar wearing a helmet online, and in game you can't display that helmet with out an add on, people will leave.
    I like how this one would be a non-issue if they put any sort of effort into Hrothgar. I reckon more people will leave when they see the piss poor options they have for customization, then for mods to fix those issues.
    (7)

  9. #19
    Player
    CaptainLagbeard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,255
    Character
    Rhaya Jakkya
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    There's really 3 parts to it..

    1. They have no way of checking what addons/mods one has installed, and because there are ones they definitely do not want to be there they're just making a blanket statement that all of them are prohibited.

    2. The only way to use them is to actually modify the game itself and they don't want people doing that, and also against the ToS.

    And a slightly lesser third, Yoshi did say that they're not gonna be responsible if anything happens to your PC or your account from someone possibly hiding some malware in the tools, mods or addons...
    (1)

  10. #20
    Player
    Burmecia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Silent Arbor
    Posts
    1,072
    Character
    Jitah'li Habhoka
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by YukiB View Post
    That's the problem.
    The problem, ToS?
    (1)

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