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  1. #1
    Player
    7agabond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Ethan Moore
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90

    Please enable all abilities during roulettes in 7.0.

    This is a huge opportunity to motivate both veterans to have fun during their roulettes and keep learning their rotations, PLUS new players to see what kind of abilities they'll get later on into the game. Something that motivated me as an early player was the abilities and cool gear. Even if there had to be balancing with lowering ability potencies when synced or stat reductions to even out the new abilities, it'd be amazing for everyone to get to see what a 90/100 class would look and feel like. I want to help my friends through dungeons and show them what a cool job they'd get at max level would be, and I also want to be able to practice my core rotation at any given point. It would be a win-win scenario for everyone.
    (2)
    Last edited by 7agabond; 05-13-2022 at 08:39 AM. Reason: roulettes synced dungeon trial raids

  2. #2
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,160
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    No thanks.

    Allowing all learned actions in syncked duties requires one of two things:

    A) At-level players will do 0.2x to 0.5x as much damage as syncked max level players because extra actions directly correlate to extra damage.
    or B) Syncked max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because syncked players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant.

    Neither of these options is appealing.
    (13)

  3. #3
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,830
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    or B) Syncked max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because syncked players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant..
    I'd happily take that option.

    For myself, though. I'd have no intention of forcing that upon others.

    Just put the option in the Duty Finder Settings:

    Retain Skills

    Retain access to all your current abilities while level-synced down. Note that the power of your individual skills will be adjusted for their increased number. While this may increase your maximum damage slightly, this will of course require you to do more work than those of significantly lower level.
    ⁘ This setting applies individually. It is not affected by the state set by the party leader.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,160
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    I'd happily take that option.

    For myself, though. I'd have no intention of forcing that upon others.
    The thing is, I don't really care insofar as it applies to me because I'm confident that even with the severe downscaling I'd still put out more than my fair share of damage. It might be a little annoying to have to put in the extra work, but whatever.

    But I don't trust three to seven other people to play their jobs well enough that duties won't take twice as long if they get scaled down. Duties with syncked people are going to take longer on average.
    (0)
    Error 3102 Club, Order of the 52nd Hour

  5. #5
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,830
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    Duties with syncked people are going to take longer on average.
    I am totally fine with that. I'd gladly spend a few more minutes for it not to feel so much like a mindless chore.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player
    LeonKeyh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    655
    Character
    Leon Keyh
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    B) Synced max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because synced players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant.
    This option is appealing. This one right here officer.

    I'd much rather be ABLE to work harder in synced combat. If not that, then they need to clean up the leveling process. It seems like with every "rework" the 1-50 ability gain rate just gets stretched out further and further and you just get things later and later. I was playing MCH in Alliance roulettes and got LotA and forgot how ridiculously anemic the level 50 rotation is.

    Hell, make it an option somewhere

    "Legacy Sync" (Your stats and abilities are synced down to the level of the duty that you are doing)

    "Alternative Sync" (Your stats are synced down, you keep your abilities but their effectiveness is decreased)

    Balance Alternative sync around an "average" player doing the same amount that an "average" player would with the legacy sync.

    I just want to be able to play the job that I'm playing at the level I have it. If I need to work 5x harder to do the same amount of damage as someone else, so be it.
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player
    Rongway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,160
    Character
    Cyrillo Rongway
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonKeyh View Post
    If I need to work 5x harder to do the same amount of damage as someone else, so be it.
    Okay. Now you're in a dungeon with a tank whose cooldowns only reduce damage by 3%-15% instead of 20%-100% and a healer who can only keep the tank alive by spending all their oGCDs in the first pull and they still have to spam tier II heals once those are all gone, or it's a wipe.

    Hyperbole aside, these problems compound when you have multiple people "alternative syncked" and people don't know how to use their action sets effectively.
    (2)
    Last edited by Rongway; 05-13-2022 at 10:46 PM.
    Error 3102 Club, Order of the 52nd Hour

  8. #8
    Player
    LeonKeyh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    655
    Character
    Leon Keyh
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    Okay. Now you're in a dungeon with a tank whose cooldowns only reduce damage by 3%-15% instead of 20%-100% and a healer who can only keep the tank alive by spending all their oGCDs in the first pull and they still have to spam tier II heals once those are all gone, or it's a wipe.

    Hyperbole aside, these problems compound when you have multiple people "alternative syncked" and people don't know how to use their action sets effectively.
    Sounds like they shouldn't pull as much then.

    You've made up a hypothetical situation where these people are 1/10th of their power instead of what would be more likely, i.e. the balance would work out so that playing in a level 40 dungeon would require the exact same (probably lesser) skill and ability use as Expert roulette. If these people are failing in this way, they would be failing in expert roulettes.
    (3)

  9. #9
    Player Ransu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Leaving my SAM in Kugane
    Posts
    2,948
    Character
    Raansu Omiyari
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    No thanks.

    Allowing all learned actions in syncked duties requires one of two things:

    A) At-level players will do 0.2x to 0.5x as much damage as syncked max level players because extra actions directly correlate to extra damage.
    or B) Syncked max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because syncked players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant.

    Neither of these options is appealing.
    It works in other games. I see no reason why it can't work here.
    (3)

  10. #10
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,830
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    B) Syncked max level players need to do 2x to 5x as much work as an at-level player to do the same amount of damage because syncked players need to have their damage scaled way down so as not to make at-level players' damage irrelevant.
    This is the way WoW's sync works. The devs have even noted that they rather badly screwed up the tuning, in low-level players' favor (to the point of their doing up to 40% more damage than intended relative to their higher-leveled allies, especially if in messy pulls where higher-level players' burst tools go to waste). And it's still far preferable to having a hugely reduced kit.
    (3)

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