The Problem(s) with Paladin

[Kiara]

Hi Eagleheart,

Excellent post and great points!

You've hit many of the concerns myself and others have been posting about and offer up some good ideas to improve the Job.

While a straight Damage Mitigation / Defense Boost (in a meaningful way) would be a simple "fix" and partial improvement (e.g., a straight -20% Damage (All Types)), there is a key problem with the way Max Level Content is:

Speed Runs & Repeating Content (due to Low Drop Rates / Random Number Generator).

With this style of content right now (for Speed Runs, Darklight Gear, Primal Seals, etc.), most people want to get through the content as fast as possible, repeatedly. So just having Paladin take significantly less Damage will help a little, but doesn't make Speed Runs any faster.

I would like to see an inherent Damage Reduction Modifier added to Paladin (and/or recalculation so Defense stat matters more vs. high dLevel mobs), but to make them more desirable I definitely agree with your ideas like having some kind of:

Auras - Damage Mitigation Auras (like Rampart, but more powerful / effective / larger range), Enfeebling Auras (like a Defense Down) or Hate Redirection Auras.

All of these would be great to allow the Party to cut loose.

Damage Mitigation Auras would let Melee DDs (Monk, Dragoon) want to have a Paladin Tank (to lessen any close damage they're taking).

Enfeebling Auras (like a Defense Down, Magic Defense Down, etc.) would also help offset make the Paladin standout in its own way vs. a Warrior (that would still have its solid DPS / Offensive capabilities).

Maybe have Enhancing Auras as well, like Attack Up Aura (like a "Morale Boost!" / "For the King!" on the Party), would also be a way to make Paladin more desirable, because it would allow Party Members in the area of effect gain a boost to do more damage to kill the Mob faster.

Ultimately, it's about allowing Paladin some recourse to contribute to Fast / Efficient Runs / Multi-Mob Situations, and basically have them desirable as a Tank for most of the player base.

What's funny/sad is that of all the archetypal roles and Square trying to fill those roles, the Paladin is the most basic "Tank" Role (the ROCK / WALL that the party can rely on to just take a beating and keep on going and draw hate well) that's usually easiest to get right. Instead they're tiptoeing around the fundamental ways to really FIX Paladin and giving us tiny "tweaks" here and there.

I hope we get a Dev Response on this.

[SwordCoheir]

What's funny/sad is that of all the archetypal roles and Square trying to fill those roles, the Paladin is the most basic "Tank" Role (the ROCK / WALL that the party can rely on to just take a beating and keep on going and draw hate well) that's usually easiest to get right. Instead they're tiptoeing around the fundamental ways to really FIX Paladin and giving us tiny "tweaks" here and there.

I hope we get a Dev Response on this.

It's kind of funny though, even with rock wall archtypes they had capability to do decent damage in Final Fantasy games and most other MMO's and RPG's out there, and SE seems reluctant to try it with PLD/GLA though they're designing all it's game mechanics to work with a damage = hate mentality.

[Duelle]

It's kind of funny though, even with rock wall archtypes they had capability to do decent damage in Final Fantasy games and most other MMO's and RPG's out there, and SE seems reluctant to try it with PLD/GLA though they're designing all it's game mechanics to work with a damage = hate mentality.

This. Tank DPS matters. It's always mattered, but people took a long time to figure it out. It wouldn't be a problem if you restricted all tanks to a one-handed weapon and a shield, but when you start tossing in two-handed tanking and so on, you realize that unless you even the playing field again someone is going to be left out. That's when developers realized tank DPS matters.

Quick fix for Palladin. Give a holy buff/skill to the sword. And throw some undead mobs/ bosses.

This won't fix anything, and I say that as one of the ret paladins that massively benefitted from undead mobs in Naxxrammas and Icecrown Citadel. Being situationally better on a mob type only prolongs the innevitable.

[SwordCoheir]

This. Tank DPS matters. It's always mattered, but people took a long time to figure it out. It wouldn't be a problem if you restricted all tanks to a one-handed weapon and a shield, but when you start tossing in two-handed tanking and so on, you realize that unless you even the playing field again someone is going to be left out. That's when developers realized tank DPS matters.

Aye, like I said in my post on the previous page that gap in base damage is growing. Part of PLD's hate gaining abilities are attributed to the damage it can deal on Spirits/Flat Blade combos, weak damage = weak returns no matter the modifier. Hate gaining JA's are static so they're gonna grow weaker against DPS's Damage as levels rise, and if FFXI has taught us anything about game mechanics is static values can't compete after a point in the game. So the only thing you can do without overhauling the system itself is boost the overall base damage of a weapon to a comparable level with other weapons so at least a job with no DD abilities can at least function at an appropriate level and allow GLA who has access to DD capabilities to become a somewhat competent DD.

This won't fix anything, and I say that as one of the ret paladins that massively benefitted from undead mobs in Naxxrammas and Icecrown Citadel. Being situationally better on a mob type only prolongs the innevitable.

Correct. Creating a single useful niche doesn't help the job it just pigeonholes it.