Third party software

[Droxybrobotnik]

Third party software = anything that modifies the game in any way.
Discord and voice clients does not. So its okay. They do not specify this because they shouldn't have to.
I agree with you on visual enhancements, forbidding purely cosmetic mods has no defense other than that console players can't do it, but I don't care at all about them, you get more possibilities on a more expensive machine.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't think it's necessarily people asking for it to be harder but instead them noticing how fast people clear previous high end content (or not) and then creating new content with that in mind, imagine a crazy world in that the community had cleared TEA in one day (crazy i know), wouldn't they then just go even crazier on difficulty than what we have now if that had happened? That's my view on it.

You would think, but I don’t see the trend in that personally. When it comes to Savage, current tiers are cleared in less than 24 hours now; and the content itself doesn’t really seem to be getting any harder as a result. I think the last tier that lasted longer than a day was Creator back in 3.4.

[CaptainLagbeard]

I think most people, including the people at Square, would be fine with mods that are just visual enhancements... But as Yoshi himself said, they have no reasonable way to see what people have installed or active, and with no proper way to add them other than actually modifying the client itself it puts everything into a messy situation as they don't want people poking into the game's files and injecting things...

I think the most reasonable thing they could do to try allowing some would be making a whitelist, and everything not on said list being prohibited.

[SaberMaxwell]

Third party software = anything that modifies the game in any way.
Discord and voice clients does not. So its okay. They do not specify this because they shouldn't have to.
I agree with you on visual enhancements, forbidding purely cosmetic mods has no defense other than that console players can't do it, but I don't care at all about them, you get more possibilities on a more expensive machine.

Either you're not using the correct definition for "third party software" or you're saying Yoshi P himself is using the incorrect definition of "third party software" because, again, Discord is an example he himself brought up unprompted in an interview on the topic.

Let alone the Discord overlay which can and does readily hook into XIV.

[Packetdancer]

Third party software = anything that modifies the game in any way.
Discord and voice clients does not. So its okay. They do not specify this because they shouldn't have to.

Discord does in fact potentially modify the game process if you have its in-game overlay enabled, the one that shows you direct messages and the 'who is in voice chat/who is speaking' widget; that hooks DirectX directly.

And if I remember correctly, even Yoshi-P has noted that yes, Discord technically counts as a third-party program. (Though if I'm remembering right, he also had a slightly pained expression on the livestream where he did so, as though he were silently asking himself "Why is this a question? Do people actually think we'll ban Discord, or are they just being pedantic?")

Except this statement simply isn't true because a truly vanilla experience means not using ACT whatsoever. This, in turn, means you can't maximize your DPS for something like Dragonsong where the enrage is so tight a single DPS death can be the difference between getting passed Estinien or wiping to Revenge of the Horde. And this is from high level players pumping out as much damage as possible. Which they only know how to do because of the aforementioned third party program and a website to parse that data.

While ACT is undeniably useful, both for improving your own efficiency in a fight and for figuring out where your static as a whole can improve, it is not required.

The optimal rotations (and ideal GCD for a rotation) can be determined mathematically outside of the game, using the information on tooltips. Arguably, it's probably easier to figure out the optimal rotations in a purely-mathematical sense outside of the game; the lack of ACT would not prevent the Balance -- or SaltedXIV, or AhkMorning, or whatever else you prefer as your combat-efficiency reference -- from posting optimal rotations and melds.

(Now, whether Determination or Direct Hit is a better meld for certain jobs is something that potentially does need to be experimented with... but while ACT makes that undeniably easier to do, it's not required.)

ACT definitely makes it possible for a group to fine-tune their efficiency far better than if they didn't have it; it's a lot easier to spot "Oh, hey, the NIN has drifted a bit, so their burst no longer aligns with raid buffs." or "We're losing the end of that burst window there, we might want to delay it a bit until after this mechanic so we don't interrupt it to move." And it's certainly a lot easier to tune your own combat efficiency if you have ACT (and can upload logs, and compare them to people who perform very well in your chosen job to see what you can do differently to improve).

But I have a friend who happens to be in a static of all console players; this wasn't deliberate, just by pure chance they all happened to play on console. As a result, they don't even have the option to use ACT, and they still clear content. I won't lie, they've expressed before that they wish their static did have the option to use ACT in order to more easily see where they need to clean things up. But the simple fact is that since the entire group are console players, they have to make do without.

ACT is undeniably an extremely useful tool to help you dial in your performance more quickly, whether individually or as a group, and so is very useful to clear content; without it, you will clear content less efficiently because figuring out what your group needs to change in order to beat that enrage can take a bit longer.

But "less efficient" doesn't mean "impossible".

[dan_alexandre]

You would think, but I don’t see the trend in that personally. When it comes to Savage, current tiers are cleared in less than 24 hours now; and the content itself doesn’t really seem to be getting any harder as a result. I think the last tier that lasted longer than a day was Creator back in 3.4.

You may be right, am thinking that they have their own targets for difficulty and try to keep savage within reason, not so sure about ultimates as they do seem to go bonkers.. but if they go bonkers and content gets cleared fast as in the hypothetical example i made earlier.. I would imagine they may re-evaluate their targets for ultimate. Would love to get some insight on how they approach this, I could be 100% wrong and perhaps it may not even be something agreed upon and just completely be: "go nuts, you're now the designer for this fight Mr. Ozma", perhaps they evaluate later as a team as the content is taking shape and not really have a target set other than.. "bonkers".

[NasaX]

Just as addon isn't Windows a 3party software as it was not made by SQUER ?
So we need some clearance from SQUER

[HolyReign]

It's not needed, have you even cleared a tier.

Why would I need to, clear a tier, to understand why people are using these addons/mods/changes in high-end content? QoL? No, just like it is in WoW, people make use of these, "Tools", to make sure they have to put minimal effort into clearing content.

[HyoMinPark]

Why would I need to, clear a tier, to understand why people are using these addons/mods/changes in high-end content? QoL? No, just like it is in WoW, people make use of these, "Tools", to make sure they have to put minimal effort into clearing content.

You really shouldn’t assume that you know what you’re talking about when it comes to content you don’t even do. You know what they say about those who assume…

It’s also really funny to see posts like this talking about raiders putting in the minimal amount of effort. With all due respect, they aren’t the portion of the playerbase that things from job design to content design are getting simplified for. They also aren’t the first group to start complaining the second something pops up in the MSQ or in casual content that requires a modicum of effort.

[ForteNightshade]

The optimal rotations (and ideal GCD for a rotation) can be determined mathematically outside of the game, using the information on tooltips. Arguably, it's probably easier to figure out the optimal rotations in a purely-mathematical sense outside of the game; the lack of ACT would not prevent the Balance -- or SaltedXIV, or AhkMorning, or whatever else you prefer as your combat-efficiency reference -- from posting optimal rotations and melds.

This simply isn't true. The DRG channel literally spent an entire week running simulation tests on every potential GCD and gear combo to determine the best rotation and eventual BiS. They do this every expansion through ACT. The whole delayed Life window exists because of parse data showing it's better for DRG to delay Life of the Dragon. Combing through a cumbersome battle log would make finding min/max potential like this near impossible. At the absolute best case scenario, it'd increase their workload substantially for no intrinsic benefit. In fact, we'd likely have very little information going into the first Savage tier due to that alone. Sites like AhkMorning have down so far as finding the precise percentage vuln stacks and damage downs deal, which is also accomplished through ACT.

But I have a friend who happens to be in a static of all console players; this wasn't deliberate, just by pure chance they all happened to play on console. As a result, they don't even have the option to use ACT, and they still clear content. I won't lie, they've expressed before that they wish their static did have the option to use ACT in order to more easily see where they need to clean things up. But the simple fact is that since the entire group are console players, they have to make do without.

The operative word is "when" are they clearing content? If they're first Savage clear is week 4-6, it's entirely irrelevant to the conversation because they're above the ilvl requirement. That alone makes up for a lot of gameplay deficiencies, especially once you're getting tome weapons. I specifically mentioned Estinien in Dragonsong because of how tight the DPS check is. There's no gear available right now to offset gaps in job knowledge. Do you have to be perfect? No. You do, however, need to play the games at a high level, or have enough players playing near perfect. Accomplishing that comes through parsing because simply reading the tooltips won't teach you the nuances of how jobs functions.

Keep in mind, the devs have their own version of ACT. They aren't going through the content in the same manner we are. Nor would it be how they test it. Furthermore, their projection of when higher difficulty content should be cleared varies wildly from player perception. Yoshida statement never said when it can be cleared. Just that it can. Which brings us back to the ilvl argument. I'd also like to point out that at 6.05's release, a comp of PLD/NIN/DNC/MCH couldn't clear P4S. That's how poorly balanced those jobs were.