Is it necessary to advertise "LGBTQ+ friendly"

[Vav2021]

While it's not a fullproof marker of a group being non-bigoted and as people have said plenty of these groups have their own issues and often intra-community issues, it's usually a good sign for me and enough to give a group a second glance and see if it's a good fit.

Both myself and my best friend are older people and came to FFXIV from playing WoW in our teens. I won't go into specifics but as a teenager even on sites known for being populated by a large LGBT+ community we both experienced a lot of verbal harrassment and threats of assault and often moderators, if they cared at all and were not bigoted themselves, did nothing. FFXIV and the general populace of gaming now are night and day from what things were like 10 years ago but my experiences have taught me to be cautious and a group saying "lgbt+ friendly" is like a sign to me that an off hand comment about a boyfriend isn't going to result in someone suddenly messaging me they are going to kill me.

I think a lot of people are either to young to remember how is was or are not LGBT+ and never had to think about it.

So far from what i've come to see a lot of in the thread is that "LGBTQ+ friendly" is more of an unintentional deterrence, and a warning to people (even those that fit into the LGBTQ+ community). I've gotten enough information and seen enough stories in the thread where I can say that I can classify it as something to avoid (even if I fit into the alphabet community myself). Yet through all of this, I am still curious if it's redundant to advertise it.

[Raoabolic]

Yet through all of this, I am still curious if it's redundant to advertise it.

It is for the simple fact that it's a universal law that people hate jerks. If the FC won't deal with said jerk then leave said FC, if the FC kicks the jerk then he was a real jerk wasn't he, lol. I do find it curious that the ToS says you cannot exclude people due to race, sex, religion, ect but the fact that lgbtq FC's exist means that the ToS is being broken? Is it one of those "rules for thee, not for me" sort of deals? What would happen if a FC that is "Straight white friendly" or "left/right politically friendly" gets a lot of people in their FC? Personally, I find the whole thing funny because people tend to play games to escape from the real life grind and pains, why would they want to be reminded of it in game? lol

tl;dr: this thread is silly and I'm loling.

[Veranolth]

Would be redundant to advertise as LGBTQ+ friendly if it was not for some people that are transphobic, homophobic, etc. It's 2022 and we still have people like that, and on the internet especially. It's not about sexual preferences either, it's about gender identity. Being trans and only a few months in into transition and not sounding gender affirming can be scary for someone trying to join a FC to run content with people with use of voice chat when you don't know if the people in that FC are transphobic or not. That's why some FCs advertise as LGBTQ+ friendly so that there's a safe space for them.

Also, again, LGBTQ+ friendly DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT mean that it's excluding straight/cisgender people.

[Coletergeist]

I really don't understand why there's an issue. If they want to advertise they are lgbt+ friendly, go for it. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't join a fc with that advertisement? Or event, or what have you. It's there for the people that feel more safe with it. If it offends you, that's a you issue. If it doesn't, why does it even matter? It's really not that deep.

If you feel like they cause more drama, then don't interact. For those that do and if there's more drama than anticipated, welp they will learn the hard way. If there's no drama, good for them.

[Cyd3l]

It is for the simple fact that it's a universal law that people hate jerks. If the FC won't deal with said jerk then leave said FC, if the FC kicks the jerk then he was a real jerk wasn't he, lol. I do find it curious that the ToS says you cannot exclude people due to race, sex, religion, ect but the fact that lgbtq FC's exist means that the ToS is being broken? Is it one of those "rules for thee, not for me" sort of deals? What would happen if a FC that is "Straight white friendly" or "left/right politically friendly" gets a lot of people in their FC? Personally, I find the whole thing funny because people tend to play games to escape from the real life grind and pains, why would they want to be reminded of it in game? lol

tl;dr: this thread is silly and I'm loling.

'LGBTQ+ friendly' doesn't mean 'LGBTQ+ Only', I don't think anyone is being excluded?

[Mikey_R]

I would say it is not necessary to label your FC as LGBTQA+ friendly and I would say it could potentially be a detriment, of which I will explain why.

Throughout this thread, there has been numerous times that people have joined LGBTQA+ friendly FCs, only to see hatred and insults etc. Whilst I do not remember anyone being specific as to what insults are being used, I would postulate that it did not necessarily start as LGBTQA+ hate, it just went in that direction, as is what is generally portrayed. You do not agree with me, you must be wrong on everything mentality.

By labelling your FC as LGBTQA+ friendly, you are likely to attract more people that fit into that labelling, the problem is, that is all you could potentially have in common. There could be a discussion on something completely unrelated, someone disagrees, gets the whole things of, you aren't a true LGBTQA+ speech (Not true Scotsman Fallacy) and it explodes from there.

Another line it could go down is some people get offended by the smallest things, say something they do not agree with, you offend them and they have a tantrum.

Whilst I am not part of the Alphabetti Spaghetti, I would still rather be around people who have similar interests and a similar sense of humour. By finding people that you do get on with, are friendly with etc. you are more likely to find out that, if it does come out that you fit a label, they are going to be more accepting of you.

To add to this, if someone was to come up to me and introduce themselves as 'Hey, I'm X and I am LGBT', I would instantly think, I really do not care, I just want to know what your personality is like and straight away, it is not looking good. This might be my biased opinion, but noone actually cares....until you start shoving it down our throats. People put too much importance on their gender identity and how it shapes their life when, in reality, noone really cares.

I will say again, this is mainly pure speculation, feel free to correct me if you feel the need.

[Cyd3l]

People put too much importance on their gender identity and how it shapes their life when, in reality, noone really cares.

I mean if no one cared would there even need to be a LGBTQ+ movement? It would be great if no one cared. But many people obviously do care, that's the problem.

[IkaraGreydancer]

I mean if no one cared would there even need to be a LGBTQ+ movement? It would be great if no one cared. But many people obviously do care, that's the problem.

I think having the movement is fine. I just feel that separating yourself is counter to wanting to be treated like everyone else. That's why I opt to just treat people as people. The moment I see that label being tacked on I know it's time to nope out as those groups tend to want to be treated special which again, is counter to what they're fighting for imo.
And before thats twisted I have zero issues with those people as people. Just feel they aren't doing themselves any favors

[Oopsy]

Quote edited to cut large portion of the text do not take out of context please.

To add to this, if someone was to come up to me and introduce themselves as \\'Hey, I\\'m X and I am LGBT\\', I would instantly think, I really do not care, I just want to know what your personality is like and straight away, it is not looking good. This might be my biased opinion, but noone actually cares....until you start shoving it down our throats. People put too much importance on their gender identity and how it shapes their life when, in reality, noone really cares.

I will say again, this is mainly pure speculation, feel free to correct me if you feel the need.

Mostly a note, not a criticism of your post. It gets my head, turning and I think furthers the conversation. What you said is mostly neutral and should not cause offense.

I don't know many that will say, " hey, I am LTGBQIA+" as their initial introduction UNLESS the activity specifically involved such topics.

But I do think it will be pretty common now to see people say "Hello, I'm Sam, and my pronouns are She/Her/They" and this would be a normal introduction that may or may not inform you that they are part of the LTGBQIA+ community.

If you were to brush off this or ignore this it could be offensive to the individuals. Depending on how you say it. Kind of like when you introduce yourself as Dr. or Pastor, these are titles that take a lot of work, you maybe proud of the effort and struggles you put into it. Having some one acknowledge it can make or break your day. Pronouns are not to dissimilar.

I'm going to shove things in these LTGBQIA+ Friendly FC potential rules and expect them to use proper nouns until their members identified their preference, maybe even in their fc comment. But we all know about when we assume...

[AziraSyuren]

People put too much importance on their gender identity and how it shapes their life when, in reality, noone really cares.

The thing a lot of people don't realize is that you don't get to not make your sexuality and gender identity/expression a large part of who you are. It's one of the most flagrantly visible things about a person from the moment you realize you can develop a crush on someone. You have pretty much every societal expectation heaped upon you at once, and the only time it doesn't cause significant strain is if you're both cis and heterosexual. And the more strain you feel- the more mental bandwidth your identity takes up- the bigger a part of your personality becomes. It's like a muscle. A big, gay muscle.

Not to mention that people alter how they treat you based on your identity whether they realize it or not. Societal expectations cannot be so easily dodged. The fact that anyone in this thread could ever feel weird when a queer person is visibly queer is proof of that.

This applies even more strongly to things like race but I know in saying that I'll get a symphony of people who even more feverishly deny their implicit biases lmao

I think having the movement is fine. I just feel that separating yourself is counter to wanting to be treated like everyone else. That's why I opt to just treat people as people. The moment I see that label being tacked on I know it's time to nope out as those groups tend to want to be treated special which again, is counter to what they're fighting for imo.
And before thats twisted I have zero issues with those people as people. Just feel they aren't doing themselves any favors

Sometimes queer people don't want to be treated "normally." They just don't want to be treated worse. The two are not the same.