Dragonsong ultimate, is machinist useless?

[Henji]

Currently, only 4 out of 94 groups has cleared dragonsong ultimate with a machinist. How can people say the job is in a good state when it's not a viable pick in a certain kind of content?

[Rongway]

4 out of 94 groups has cleared dragonsong ultimate with a machinist

[MCH's] not a viable pick in [Dragonsong ULtimate]

These two statements are incompatible. If it were not viable, 0 groups would have cleared with a MCH.

[Henji]

These two statements are incompatible. If it were not viable, 0 groups would have cleared with a MCH.

Let's face it, it's only viable in groups that don't struggle with DPS. It was almost the exact same thing for week 1 savage, but for DRS it's even worse, since we'll never leave the "week 1 state" until dungeon gear and better consumables drop.

[CKNovel]

"Useless" and "Unviable" is an hyperbole of the current situation.

DSR strikes exactly where it hurts the MCH. Problem is that anything that isn't single target and requires minimum utility is the MCH weakness while it doesn't shine in the former.

MCH suffers from 4 main problems:
-It is gauge based, unlike TEA it's very rare to have a phase where the DPS check is so low you can sit on your resources for a big reopener.
-A lot of damages source are tied to the gauges, Hypercharge and Automaton Queen. Downtime is actually the MCH worst ennemy while the melees won't have troubles.
-In the ranged equation MCH doesn't have any utility as DNC and BRD also have their tactician equivalent.
-MCH AoE game is terrible. Bio Blaster is barely a gain, ricochet needs the targets to be stacked (spoiler, they're never stacked) and Chain saw suffers from 65% fall off.

Compare that to DNC:
-Amazing in heavy downtime content as it is a burst job.
-Not being gauge based.
-Massive utility as Cure Waltz is very good and Improved finish is ridiculously great. Also has access to dashes.
-Great AoE game, has many fall off but also has many natural AoEs.

Compare that to BRD:
-Suffers from downtime due to needing a target to play its songs (Would be amazing otherwise)
-A bit of damage coming from gauges.
-Great utility, Warden's pean is a bit useless and should have an extra effect as it's not pressed at all in any 6.0 content (I think?), but Nature's Minne is amazing, especially with a scholar.
-Great AoE game, can multi dot and easily aim at 2 targets.

MCH is simply not valuable and brings nothing to the team except a slightly better DPS when there is no downtime. This isn't enough to compete with the other ranged DPS. RDM is gauge based and has lower damage but brings Magick Barrier.
It's a problem since 5.0, MCH has been amputated from too many things. Dismantle should've stayed.

You can definitely clear as a MCH but your team will hate your for picking MCH.
At that point, I'm honestly just waiting until Yoshida says on the liveletter "Okay sorry we goofed MCH and we've been ignoring the problems for too long."

[SilverSkyway]

On top of the 5% rule. Bard and dnc bring buffs, Mch doesn't. Most teams pushing will have tanks/heals (duh) but 2melee/1caster/1range. <5%.
As said by CKN, Mch despite a selfless dps doesn't bring do enough, even in damage area.

[Lilyth]

MCH needs buffs for sure, but its not unviable on DSR. Been progging Death into Nighogg/Hraes as a MCH and the group hasn't had any dps issues so far.

[Serenaya]

No, it isn't useless. In fact, the short phases benefit it quite well. We have the ability to pool and spend at will, ensuring good burst pretty much on demand. Got a weakness? No problem, just spend gauge otherwise being built for next phase to compensate a little given that most phases DPS checks are pretty lenient once you're comfortable with the mechanics. Full disclosure, my group is on P6 enrage (clear soon hopefully but we don't have masses of free time the last couple weeks) and we've had no issues at all. Of course the P7 check is the big one, but I don't predict any major problems once I know how much gauge I can optimally go into the last phase with. People are sleeping on MCH on this fight tbh.

It's clear by now that SEs logic is that they want it to be very burst-oriented and that coupled with the design of this ultimate means that MCH is at least able to excel in that department, reinforced by the WF buff following the 6.11 patch. Still doesn't justify the myriad of issues the job still has, and my view on the job needing a major intervention hasn't really changed but calling it unviable is an overreaction.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

If you say Gauge are an issue, then the Reaper got the exact same issue. But I've not seen any RPR saying that was an issue on the DSR so far.

[CKNovel]

If you say Gauge are an issue, then the Reaper got the exact same issue. But I've not seen any RPR saying that was an issue on the DSR so far.

And you are correct, RPR is quite low compared to other melees.
But on the opposite of the MCH, RPR benefits much more from downtime (Soul Slice 30s cooldown on 2 charges, that would be like if Air Anchor had 2 charges) and benefits from Arcane circle.
It allows the RPR to have a better control over its gauges and cooldowns, allowing massive reopeners. In comparison, MCH only has Reassemble on charges and it only garantee a crit/dh.

RPR is actually valuable during full uptime phases.

On top of that, Arcane Crest remains valuable especially during healing check phases.
Despite being on the lower end of the melee DPS, RPR is able to bring valuable tools on the table.
The problem is that MCH doesn't even have RPR mobility or Arcane crest.

TL;DR:
It's an issue but not a big one since RPR brings something else than its DPS to the table.
It's a big issue for MCH as it only brings DPS and is by far the lowest of all 3.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

And you are correct, RPR is quite low compared to other melees.
But on the opposite of the MCH, RPR benefits much more from downtime (Soul Slice 30s cooldown on 2 charges, that would be like if Air Anchor had 2 charges) and benefits from Arcane circle.
It allows the RPR to have a better control over its gauges and cooldowns, allowing massive reopeners. In comparison, MCH only has Reassemble on charges and it only garantee a crit/dh.

RPR is actually valuable during full uptime phases.

On top of that, Arcane Crest remains valuable especially during healing check phases.
Despite being on the lower end of the melee DPS, RPR is able to bring valuable tools on the table.
The problem is that MCH doesn't even have RPR mobility or Arcane crest.

TL;DR:
It's an issue but not a big one since RPR brings something else than its DPS to the table.
It's a big issue for MCH as it only brings DPS and is by far the lowest of all 3.

That's a better explanation, thanks for that.

Then, how about this ?

MCH is a class based on mecanical tools and weaponery. Just by saying that, don't you think that the possibilities are endless ?

What if, we replace some of the useless Tool of the MCH, and turn them into something usefull for the team. boosting the DPS of the MCH, and increasing it's utility.

Bard, Dancer and MCH share a 10% AoE Mitigation. That's the only common point, because BRD and Dancer boost the offensive and Defensive ability quite a lot more. (Especially Dancer for the defense (Shield HP% Based and Heal) and Bard for the Offense).

Why not including the same little AoE Touret they got at SB (Can't remember the name), BUT not as a DPS tool, but as a Healing tool that pulse every 3 second (for like 12 sec) on a little area OR doing a shield pulse AoE (Just like the PvP one) ? (I don't think people will like this idea, but it can make something emerge in your head, so why not ?)

Replacing Flamethrower (It's still awful) by a new attack ? Give us the PvP Sniper ! (Lot of people will love that one, Pretty sure).

Now that i've said some hypothetical idea, let's get straight into the serious business :

MCH Downtime. adding charges on Air Anchor may not be the greatest idea, but I see where you are trying to go CKNovel. How about this one : Extend the CD of Drill at 60 second (and adjust potency), Increase Anchor CD at 60 sec (Adjust potency too and battery to 30). Doing this we match almost with Reassemble and be aligned with Chainsaw, allowing for a more powerful burst windows with Drill being the most potent out of the three.

Like this, the 2 minute burst windows feel much more powerful than it was, but it will give a hole into the "filler phase" where you will dps almost nothing with almost no tool to compensate, the only one being Hypercharge, this one will be in the burst windows due to the +50 heat skill every two minutes. Adjusting the DPS for this phase seems to be a good idea in order to balance the burst phase, reducing the overpowered burst phase and upgrading the "filler phase".

Machinist need to do 10 GCD in order to get 1 Hypercharge (Which mean almost 25 second between each one) and Hypercharge will last for 8 seconds with 5 Pyro-explosion at most (1.5 GCD for a total 7.5 sec). Therefore, each cycle is 32.5 sec, you can place 3 of them before the 2 minute burst. which seems to be quite alright I guess.

Replace Bioblaster and/or Flamethrower into utility tool :

Bioblaster change for Healing Smoke : Same effect as Bioblaster but reversed, healing allies touched by this for 50 Potency + a HoT of 50 potency for 15 seconds (giving a tool similar to the reaper, but with more flexibility to use)
Flamethrower change for Marksman's Spite (Snipper) : Casted attack on 1.5 seconds (2.5 GCD, and 120 second Cooldown), With a Potency equal of the 60 sec Drill and affected by Reassemble, giving a +10% damage dealt by the MCH for 20 sec. (Allowing to fit Hypercharge + Drill/Anchor/Chainsaw in the window).

What do you think ? I don't think my idea are that great, but at least, I think that could make quite the change ?