Console Players don't need Addons

[Droxybrobotnik]

The trouble is that once addons are allowed and normalized you will not be raiding without them. At least not in most FC's, they will simply expect you to use them as not doing so means bringing down the performance of the group as a whole. The floor of entry will then require addons. For example, raiding in WoW without DBM is tantamount to trolling your guildmates.

This means console players will be more and more excluded from these activities.

Banning addons is the only option here to avoid their normalization and subsequent exclusion of a large portion of the playerbase from endgame.

No, it is not. Addons have been normalized for a long time, and Square cannot do much about it since its all client side.

[KariTheFox]

The trouble is that once addons are allowed and normalized you will not be raiding without them. At least not in most FC's, they will simply expect you to use them as not doing so means bringing down the performance of the group as a whole. The floor of entry will then require addons. For example, raiding in WoW without DBM is tantamount to trolling your guildmates.

This means console players will be more and more excluded from these activities.

Banning addons is the only option here to avoid their normalization and subsequent exclusion of a large portion of the playerbase from endgame.

Plugins already exist, and most statics absolutely do not require the use of them beyond maybe one member running ACT for the purposes of logging.

[QooEr]

i want to know what parallel universe these people live in. ive been in more than one hardcore static and none of them give a damn about what you have or dont have installed. the only thing they care about is that youre punctual and consistent with mechanics

[SaltyDaddy]

The trouble is that once addons are allowed and normalized you will not be raiding without them. At least not in most FC's, they will simply expect you to use them as not doing so means bringing down the performance of the group as a whole. The floor of entry will then require addons. For example, raiding in WoW without DBM is tantamount to trolling your guildmates.

This means console players will be more and more excluded from these activities.

Banning addons is the only option here to avoid their normalization and subsequent exclusion of a large portion of the playerbase from endgame.

Uuuh.... No? Why everyone speaks their mind talking about addons not even knowing what addons community use and what they do? People do not use cheats, duck the cheaters. Having UI improvements will not help you clear content better. Please, level your character first and get into raiding community. Then we can talk.

[Renalt]

So why do you?

There is a clear difference between "need" and "want". Also console would be using them IF they could.

[Dakkon3]

You're right I haven't experienced endgame in FF14. I'm just extrapolating from the situation as it is in world of warcraft which is where I came from.

Perhaps the 14 community is more chill about this stuff and it won't go in that direction.

[Neoyoshi]

The point was console players are perfectly capable of clearing high end content up to and including ultimates without any third party tools to make things easier. So PC players have no excuse for needing such addons. It's time to just admit it's compensating for a lack of skill and situational awareness and not necessity.

Honestly, the PC user-base that I know of uses these addon's for things that absolutely add no real value to the experience; it's not even a lack of skill thing or having a lack of spatial awareness; it's purely a manufactured phenomenon that started all the way back in World of Warcraft: The burning crusade expansion; -when two notable addons completely changed MMORPG games forever: Gearscore, and Damage meter. (Recount/Details) -and was reiterated on during Wraith of the Lich King due to how big damage numbers were getting by the time the ICC raid series rolled out.

I remember when these two addon categories came into existence and the impact it had on the community was almost immediate; and it was.... disgusting how quickly it brought out the worst in players; even I found myself drawn to these addon's and used them for a time in WoW, and later on stopped using them as they also brought out my worst impulses.

[HyoMinPark]

The trouble is that once addons are allowed and normalized you will not be raiding without them. At least not in most FC's, they will simply expect you to use them as not doing so means bringing down the performance of the group as a whole. The floor of entry will then require addons. For example, raiding in WoW without DBM is tantamount to trolling your guildmates.

This means console players will be more and more excluded from these activities.

Banning addons is the only option here to avoid their normalization and subsequent exclusion of a large portion of the playerbase from endgame.

These are all really hefty assumptions with no proof outside of you used to play another game that did things this way. Just because WoW was like that (I’m assuming, based off of your post—wouldn’t really know since I played WoW for a day back in 2007 and didn’t like it, so I never touched it again) doesn’t mean that FFXIV is like that. The communities for both games are already vastly different: it’s my understanding that WoW was more outright hostile/toxic where as FFXIV’s tends to be more passive aggressive with their toxicity. Just to name one attribute of each.

Parsers and damage meters have been a thing since ARR, which was almost 10 years ago. Other add-ons like Cactbot and Triggernometry have been in this game since Stormblood, which was 6~7 years ago. Same with cosmetic mods. They’ve always been a thing—it’s just now in light of DRU, they’re even more of A Thing due to one community’s love for creating witch-hunts against anything they deem wrong (5chan). Streamers showing them on their Twitch streams also isn’t anything new. The only new thing is they are talked about more now than they were when I first started over 6 years ago.

Console players aren’t excluded from anything. Most of the statics I’ve been in have been a mixture of PC and console players. All of the statics I’ve been in have no requirements outside of any performance requirements they might have. None have ever asked me to use any third-party program—not even ACT, which is likely one of the more common programs out there. And I’ve been in groups advertised as casual all the way to semi-hardcore. Maybe things are different in world progression/top speedkill groups, but even if they are, that is a very small portion of the raiding community. The majority of raiders don’t hold any such standards.

[KariTheFox]

It's funny people would bring up gearscore as the horrible, toxic thing that it was when that functionality is pretty much baked directly into ffxiv with ilvl. Along with the associated toxicity and exclusion that comes with it.

We've all seen those PF parties that ask for players to have 20 more points of ilvl than is necessary to clear EX content.

[Rilifane]

You're right I haven't experienced endgame in FF14. I'm just extrapolating from the situation as it is in world of warcraft which is where I came from.

Perhaps the 14 community is more chill about this stuff and it won't go in that direction.

With all due respect, you shouldn't make predictions for a community you have absolutely no experience with. Extrapolating from some other game that did things this other way is an approach which spreads a lot of misconceptions and prejudices.
And we already have enough of it with people stating that addons would play the game for us or that people are cheating their way through ultimate clears or that people who use ACT are toxic elitists and just want to yell and scream obsceneties at everyone.

Yes, there are things that should get the user banned the moment it is discovered like auto-targeting people below 50% HP on NIN in PvP and there is a very good reason you don't find these things on regular plugin sites like github because they make to filter the resources they provide and nobody here or in any other addon thread has ever condoned the use of these types of addons.
But acting like a countdown plugin that shows every second of a countdown from the start is somehow getting them an ultimate clear is ridiculous and ignorant.
And addons have been part of this game for many, many years. No static I've ever been in, from casual to hardcore, has ever required me to use any of those. As long as one person can upload logs for analysis it was enough and some statics don't even do that.