Console Players don't need Addons

[Padudu]

Have always played on PC. Never installed any mod into game.

Don't know rotation. Learn it by playing game.
Don't know where to stand for mechanics during fight. Learn it by playing game.
Want to know how your DPS compares to other party members. Why does it matter as long as the content is cleared. As a DPS you can generally tell where you stand by your rank on the enmity list. There isn't a need for exact numbers during the fight. I generally see parsers more often used by people trying to e-peen or using it to berate players that are below them on the parse.

If you don't do high-level content just say so fam.

[Coletergeist]

Want to know how your DPS compares to other party members. Why does it matter as long as the content is cleared. As a DPS you can generally tell where you stand by your rank on the enmity list.

Things like ACT are most often used for self improvement whether folks want to believe it or not. The enmity list doesn't count - that really depends on who starts attacking first compared to others and if you die or not - hard to tell real damage comparable to others using that list. It's....meh for the most part. You can somewhat tell, but I still wouldn't use that to compare if you're doing good damage to others, especially since healing puts you up there on the list as well.

There isn't a need for exact numbers during the fight.

How does one say they don't do high end content without saying they don't do high end content.

[MilkieTea]

How does one say they don't do high end content without saying they don't do high end content.

The difference between a wipe and a clear can be about 200 DPS in some cases.

[GaiusDrakon]

The difference between a wipe and a clear can be about 200 DPS in some cases.

To be fair I generally don't look at my parser anymore and stopped paying attention to my damage. I just know what to do now.

But that's only after a long period of actually improving at the game with the aid of parsers and using tools like xivanalysis to evaluate what I can do better.

So ironically it's the high-end players who need parsers less than the casual players IMHO.

[Mosha]

I generally see parsers more often used by people trying to e-peen or using it to berate players that are below them on the parse.

Maybe because the vast number of people who are using them are not berating and harassing people? people aren't going to bring up parsing even in a neutral or positive context because they know malding carebears exist who would report them.

[HyoMinPark]

Have always played on PC. Never installed any mod into game.

Okay, and good for you, I guess? With all due respect, I don’t think anyone really cares what you are doing or not doing on your own PC.

I really don’t understand why some people are so concerned about what other people do on their own computers while they’re playing a video game. Especially these people that criticize raiders for using third-party apps while not touching anything harder than a 24-man themselves. Respectfully, this is affecting content that you are not participating in and/or have zero interest in participating in. So why do you care so much? To the point that some are defending and encouraging witch hunts against streamers. GCBTW, indeed.

Add-ons are not required to clear Savage or Ultimate. The streamers that use them absolutely do not need them, and it’s hilarious that people who have never stepped into an Extreme are questioning their skill levels. Some add-ons are QoL features that should honestly exist in this game—like the ReShade filter that made P3S not a physical assault on one’s eyeballs.

Frankly, I can’t even be bothered to keep up with the names of streamers, much less what and which add-ons they use. The only ones that I agree are pushing it are ones that hack invisible AOE indicators into the game. But others I don’t care enough to sit around and mass report them on some sort of crusade like what is happening now. What they do doesn’t affect me in any way.

It would be nice if this kind of effort could be put into things like PvP hackers/botters, wintraders, and crafting/gathering bots. But I guess since they aren’t toxic elitist raiders, it’s different. I feel like there is a horrible double standard at play here sometimes, and it honestly makes me not even want to take part in this community anymore. I barely talk in-game anymore as it is; this kind of behavior of sanctioning witch-hunts because “third-party programs bad heehee let’s mass report streamers just because we can” just makes me embarrassed to be a part of the FFXIV community. The amount of pettiness involved in this entire thing is just mind-boggling.

Don't know rotation. Learn it by playing game.

This game doesn’t teach you your rotation. Never has. You have to look up rotational guides on third-party sites that are formulated via third-party programs.

Want to know how your DPS compares to other party members. Why does it matter as long as the content is cleared. As a DPS you can generally tell where you stand by your rank on the enmity list. There isn't a need for exact numbers during the fight. I generally see parsers more often used by people trying to e-peen or using it to berate players that are below them on the parse.

This argument fails to hold up when Extremes, Savages, and Ultimates have hard enrages that bank on doing X amount of damage. Damage absolutely does matter—and no matter how much you want to say “it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter”, it does. Heck, it is the most important aspect of this game at this point when it comes to battle content, since everything else has been removed: healing requirements are laughable in all pieces of content at all levels, enmity management doesn’t exist anymore, resource management is slowly being deleted from the game, crowd control is virtually non-existent in PvE content. Even punishments for failed mechanics are non-existent until you get into Savage and Ultimate. And the former can still be struggle bus’d/limped through with a decent group.

It is funny to still see people insisting the enmity meter on the party list gives you any inkling of your overall contribution to a party, or is any substitute for an actual damage meter that gives you a number. I’m number one in enmity during a 24-man on WHM. Does that mean I’m also top DPS? In the average instance, I would wager not. If I actually am, then there are a lot more issues at play going on. Overhealing and healing in general contributes to enmity—you cannot use enmity as a measure of damage dealt when something like that or having tank stance enabled affects it.

It is an anecdote, but I have played this game for over six years. In all my time playing, I have seen one person “berate” another over damage a handful of times. It is certainly not a common practice; not in the way the anti-parser crowd always makes it out to be. Most of the time when people are berating, it’s not over damage and more so mechanic consistency.

Ironically, I’ve been on the receiving end of someone berating my damage when I was doing double theirs with Brink of Death. I was a BRD and they were a SAM—the content was Tsukuyomi EX when it first released. But I was the one accused of being the reason we hit enrage. Not the two melee DPS that I was massively out-damaging while having a 50% damage penalty.

And this isn’t to say I was even the one logging anything. Another individual in the group was and saw that. Of course, I couldn’t be defended out loud. Because even if that was mentioned in defense of me saying I wasn’t the issue, that would still be someone admitting to using a third-party tool. And this community is nothing if not petty, and would have reported on sight even if the information was delivered purely as a statement of fact and not in a toxic way. Sucks that you can’t even use it “for good” or to defend yourself when someone makes ignorant statements like the individuals in that party. I’ll never forget it due to the sheer irony of it.



People wield their ignorance as a weapon, and this thread is the epitome of this.

[Absurdity]

This argument fails to hold up when Extremes, Savages, and Ultimates have hard enrages that bank on doing X amount of damage. Damage absolutely does matter—and no matter how much you want to say “it doesn’t matter, it doesn’t matter”, it does. Heck, it is the most important aspect of this game at this point, since everything else has been removed: healing requirements are laughable in all pieces of content at all levels, enmity management doesn’t exist anymore, resource management is slowly being deleted from the game, crowd control is virtually non-existent in PvE content.

The argument doesn't just fall apart in extremes and up.

What if you're playing a tank? You'll always be either 1 or 2 in the enmity list and vastly ahead of everyone else, it doesn't tell you anything since they reworked tank stances.
What if everyone in your party is terrible? Being the 3rd highest in the enmity list doesn't mean your dps is good, it just means it's not quite as terrible as everyone else's.

[Shurrikhan]

Have always played on PC. Never installed any mod into game.

Don't know rotation. Learn it by playing game.

This requires that the game give sufficient feedback to tell the difference between doing something properly or not.

At present, the only means to that is specifically SSS, because all else is a team environment in which you cannot singularly determine your contribution to any meaningful degree. That's not because Enmity is insufficient to tell what portion you do, mind you, but because casual fights themselves have literally no fail conditions beyond not every player dying, making even a rotation of solely auto-attacks technically sufficient.

Just "playing the game" can only teach you to the degree that not knowing how to play the game would punish you.

[Gemina]

Also from the realm of the outside looking in, I found it really interesting that all of this came up after the release of Dragonsong. I would throw a massive chunk of change in the wager tank that the dev team put in a ton of work to ensure this content wouldn't get cleared within the first week of release.

[Necrotica]

Don't be envious just cause your betters have access to nicer toys than you.