Console Players don't need Addons

[Gemina]

Needs vs wants.

You don't need them, but they do add certain QoL things that the devs have refused to do over the game's lifecycle. I don't use them but I understand why others do.

That's a good life lesson.

You don't have to agree with a stance, but you can attempt to understand it.

They provide more than QoL elements to the gameplay. They can and do give distinctive advantages over console players.
A poster here already admitted to me that healers can see the mitigation and ogcd heal cooldowns of their teammates. That is one hell of an advantage if you ask me.

I am trying to understand it myself. My previous question of why would a player seeking more difficult content support and use addon tools not supported by the dev team that makes the content less so got no response.

Seems to me players care more about the credibility than the difficulty. Thoughts?

[YukikoKurosawa]

I am trying to understand it myself. My previous question of why would a player seeking more difficult content support and use addon tools not supported by the dev team that makes the content less so. No one gave me a response.

That is the most baffling part. People playing high end content seem to overwhelming try to find means to trivialize said content. The likely explanation is they want the prestige of clearing it, and the rewards said content gives, without actually earning it.

But they'll never admit this, of course.

[MintnHoney]

My previous question of why would a player seeking more difficult content support and use addon tools not supported by the dev team that makes the content less so got no response.

Seems to me players care more about the credibility than the difficulty. Thoughts?

I believe the issue is that you're confused in your premise of what others are seeking and haven't bothered to take the time to really understand what's being sought after. They're not necessarily looking for difficulty; they're just looking for a certain level of engagement, which can be provided via many things, including difficulty.
Hell, if mods could provide that long sought-after engagement, I'd install that in a heartbeat.

[Gemina]

I believe the issue is that you're confused in your premise of what others are seeking and haven't bothered to take the time to really understand what's being sought after. They're not necessarily looking for difficulty; they're just looking for a certain level of engagement, which can be provided via many things, including difficulty.
Hell, if mods could provide that long sought-after engagement, I'd install that in a heartbeat.

Wow. That sounds exactly like my argument when I would have to enlighten players seeking said engagement that engagement entails much more than just difficulty.

Now that difficulty and one button smash dancing is no longer the wards of engagement, we have shifted to needing tools not supported by the developers? Shift the goal posts much?

[MintnHoney]

Wow. That sounds exactly like my argument when I would have to enlighten players seeking said engagement that engagement entails much more than just difficulty.

Now that difficulty and one button smash dancing is no longer the wards of engagement, we have shifted to needing tools not supported by the developers? Shift the goal posts much?

I think you need a break from trying so hard to undermine your peers.

You too, Yukiko.

[QooEr]

They provide more than QoL elements to the gameplay. They can and do give distinctive advantages over console players.
A poster here already admitted to me that healers can see the mitigation and ogcd heal cooldowns of their teammates. That is one hell of an advantage if you ask me.

I am trying to understand it myself. My previous question of why would a player seeking more difficult content support and use addon tools not supported by the dev team that makes the content less so got no response.

Seems to me players care more about the credibility than the difficulty. Thoughts?

youre being intellecutally dishonest. addons go from things as harmless as "change the bgm" to actual cheating and automation. use some critical thinking for once and stop clumping them together and pretending people are all pining for the cheating ones.

theres plugins that do help and make things "easier" but not by a substantial margin. theres one addon out there that makes battle countdowns show for every second instead of just the last 5. it makes it "easier" in that someone doesnt have to count in their heads to use sharpcast or whatever at -12 seconds, but do you seriously think theyre unable to do that themselves? moreover do you seriously think that being able to use sharpcast at exactly -12 is going to make someone suddenly able to clear savages and ultimates with no practice? youre just arguing in bad faith at that point.

people are defending the fun and harmless stuff. things like changing bgm, adding a background image to text boxes, or filtering icon clutter when opening the map. people also defend the things that anyone could do without help. yes anyone can count seconds in their head, and anyone can target a party member to see how many seconds are remaining in their buff/debuff. yes anyone can sift through the battle log to see what killed them. these addons arent giving anyone any big advantage, theyre just saving them them some needless effort by displaying the already available information better than the vanilla ui does.

and of course theres the addons that just fix the shit SE themselves wont fix. like the one that solves the issue of controllers randomly disconnecting on PC, or one that lets you restart audio without closing the game for when the game poops its pants. or the one that prevents the client from closing when it fails to login. or the one that makes animation lock not last twice as long if youre not lucky enough to live in Sacramento.

Admitting to that you cannot beat the game with the console setting of UI and the likes and so on and so forth just mean you are not able to actually do that savage og ultimate content that you do and claim to have passed on the same terms as any player in the game whom does not have the same advantage.

Clearly many forum users don't play with actual people who succeeds great time on consoles.

N O B O D Y is saying they cant clear with the vanilla ui lmao. the jp guy that got banned does world prog. in case youre not aware, add ons dont work for the first week-ish after a patch, so anyone who clears stuff in the first days clearly can play with the vanilla functions of the game, they simply want to have better qol.

i suppose that being a squenix simp and being intellectually dishonest go hand in hand.

[Gemina]

youre being intellecutally dishonest. addons go from things as harmless as "change the bgm" to actual cheating and automation. use some critical thinking for once and stop clumping them together and pretending people are all pining for the cheating ones.

Remember the first words here. I am going to bring them back around. It is quite ironic, and even a bit humorous that you are telling me to use critical thinking and stop lumping everyone together, when I have yet to accuse anyone of cheating. I, like several other posters have asked why users of third party tools and addons need them. From what I can tell, these are coming from mostly console users who do not have access to these tools. Furthermore it also isn't this group of people who are stating that these tools put them at a disadvantage. How could we possibly know? We are deliberately told that we are placed at a disadvantage, and guess who says this? It's the third party tool users.

So with what you said to me earlier. Who exactly is being intellectually dishonest? It sure in hell isn't me.

theres plugins that do help and make things "easier" but not by a substantial margin. theres one addon out there that makes battle countdowns show for every second instead of just the last 5. it makes it "easier" in that someone doesnt have to count in their heads to use sharpcast or whatever at -12 seconds, but do you seriously think theyre unable to do that themselves? moreover do you seriously think that being able to use sharpcast at exactly -12 is going to make someone suddenly able to clear savages and ultimates with no practice? youre just arguing in bad faith at that point.

I agree, that would be arguing in bad faith; if any of this was my argument. You might want to reread this. You quite literally just told me that addons make things easier, how they do so, and then proceed to state that I'm claiming players are clearing savage and ultimate without practice. Not much else to say about that.

[QooEr]

I agree, that would be arguing in bad faith; if any of this was my argument. You might want to reread this. You quite literally just told me that addons make things easier, how they do so, and then proceed to state that I'm claiming players are clearing savage and ultimate without practice. Not much else to say about that.

ok then, i apologize. yes those things make things easier. but then we're talking about a different kind of difficulty here. what differentiates QoL from gameplay difficulty?

if you analyze the sliding scale of difficulty in ffxiv encounters, youll find out what entails the intended difficulty vs just fighting bad design choices. you start having to memorize boss attack patterns, pay attention to cast bars, needing to execute rotations properly to meet dps checks, failing mechanics becomes more punishing (vuln up -> oneshot -> insta wipe), etc. there are many things that become harder as a design choice. however none of those are even remotely related to the woes that people who use these addons want to address (except i guess maybe the CD tracking one?? which again, people still can do using vanilla xiv with an excel spreadsheet. is it hypocritical to use excel to plan mitigation too?)

the game doesnt really ask you to pay attention to other people's buff timers. the game is already giving you a battle log that tells you pretty much why you die. the game already has a countdown and someone can make a macro that sends every second in chat. someone who wants a bigger challenge from the game, and thus doing ultimate content, can still without any contradiction on their part want to just not fight the game's ui, because the difficulty of encounters in ffxiv revolves around pattern recognition and execution of mechanics + rotations, not around looking at buffs or counting seconds mentally during a pre-pull countdown. theres nothing ironic in the slightest.

[Punslinger]

They provide more than QoL elements to the gameplay. They can and do give distinctive advantages over console players.

Please enlighten me on how GShade, BDTH, or BMP give "distinctive advantages" over console players. Go on, I'll wait.

A poster here already admitted to me that healers can see the mitigation and ogcd heal cooldowns of their teammates. That is one hell of an advantage if you ask me.

No more so than calling out your cooldowns in chat, or raiding in the same room as your co-healer so you can glance over at their screen and see what's on cooldown, or employing a "ninth" to watch cooldowns and do call-outs, or...

I am trying to understand it myself. My previous question of why would a player seeking more difficult content support and use addon tools not supported by the dev team that makes the content less so got no response.

Why would a player seeking more difficult content do things like look at guides, or use meta comps, or use Discord instead of text chat, or run with gear above minimum item level, or join a static, when it would be far more difficult to do blind min-ilvl PuG runs with randoms? If you don't intentionally gimp your performance, can you really honestly say you're pursuing difficult content? /s

There are legitimate arguments against add-ons that expose information you could not legitimately get (untelegraphed AoEs), or that automate the game beyond what would be reasonable to compensate for a disability (automatic marker placement during combat). This ain't one of them. In fact, it's just a thinly-veiled Appeal To Motive against people you disagree with.

Seems to me players care more about the credibility than the difficulty. Thoughts?

I take it back, it's not veiled at all.
I think you need to drop the passive-aggressive act and get more fiber in your diet.

[kpxmanifesto]

You don't have to agree with a stance, but you can attempt to understand it.

It's going to be difficult to get through to the OP with that logic. He goes from thread to thread on these forums, trying to stamp out any positive views towards addons.