Console Players don't need Addons

[Faafetai]

There's a big difference between having to identify something on the spot and having something doing it for you. Guides do not do it for you.

I'm not even someone who has a moral objection to Cactbot (or cheating in general that doesn't directly modify the tools available in-game) so falsely equating the two isn't gonna work on me.

I know this may not go for everyone, but listening to someone do call outs or listening to a bot do call outs would have the same affect for me, which is noise. If watching a guide though or watching someone stream a fight over and over again without playing through some fights I know with at least 85% certainty that seeing it done will yield me an advantage over anyone going into the content blind. I usually learn by doing as well as have memorized many mechanics and can make the connections to new mechanics because I have seen them before. The fact that I enjoy the game and am interested in it makes this one thing I seem to be oddly decent at.

Does cactbot move your character and help you meet dps checks? I thought is legit just gave you call outs that you could customize so you knew when trick attack was up or a sound queue when you should go to a specific spot in a raid.

[Inanegrain]

Rarely used? Cactbot is incredibly ubiquitous these days, and has only been rapidly growing in popularity over the last few years. Almost every time I join a pug raid VC I can hear the stupid pops and pings it makes through peoples mics. You'd be really hard pressed to find groups where no one is using it. It's not even widely frowned upon; Most of the times I've tried to call it cheating I've been drowned out and called an ableist, even in high-end groups.



A fundamental part of resolving a mechanic is reading the mechanic and determining how exactly you are supposed to respond. Cactbot automates that part of the process in many fights.

Taken from another thread

tl:dr : "cheating", context may cause GMs to ignore it if it's "harmless". Subjective views for each individual.

Overly simple insinuation would be people beating up players who actively use cactbot to clear.
It starts from no one should care if they clear with it till they say something dumb.

It goes back into the no third party applications at all issue yet GMs have to consider the callouts to be an advantage or not on the spectrum of "this is a useless callout" to "this is cheating".

ACT will never be approved unless SE gives their version of ACT which I highly doubt they would. It falls under "do not show, do not talk about it" while they've mentioned severity has mattered instead of "do not show", not caring if it's the overlay on stream or callouts, because most incidents previously I've seen were being toxic and were harassing, besides the recent DSR ones.

I remember watching a discussion and I'd agree that cactbot should be removed from ACT to make it simpler to judge, but it has that spectrum I mentioned earlier, being fine or absolutely not.

Makes the conditions change when they considered DSR a community event which is another discussion.

If you call it out as cheating, of course you're gonna start a fight with someone, this is something that has many people having opinions on it and it ending with it's the users business and want, if they brag about it, people are not going to take that by ignoring it. It may look like a meme, but gear/week__ has an impact on how the fights going to be easier.

Yes, it's a advantage depending on how it's used, no I do not care because it's solely for them unless you're considering them telling you in VC is the issue, at that rate, you have the option to not join randoms VC for it.

[Inanegrain]

I mean, it definitely improves consistently and reduces the learning curve. Just because it only makes it somewhat easier doesn't mean it still isn't cheating.

Guides help similarly for the learning curve, because it shows you an idea what will happen in it.

People can and have stretched this to have been "cheating" but not caring because the clear's meant to be a personal achievement. People tend to hone in on this part a lot even if they've not bothered with "hard" content at all as everyone forgets the do not talk/show about as either a non-streamer/streamer. Just that the "show" part has been up to the vague discretion of SE.

This thing is something that anyone who's simply clearing content without being in a race of such as DSR, do not need to care about. Even though DSR is a strange anomaly that got attention as a community event.
An example, if the RDM didn't upload their pov, and it was the MNK who did, would we have this mess?

[LittleImp]

Watching a guide is cheating if we go that way.

Guides don't tell you exactly what to do, in real time, based exactly on what is happening in your instance in real time. Stop being disingenuous.

Ok now do all of those mechanics. Should be easy right? The bot tells you what it is so you should instantly know what to do and how to do it perfectly.

In the case of this mechanic, it's literally just walking your character to a marker which Cactbot automatically and instantly tells you to go to. Most of the player interaction of that particular mechanic is in reading it, just like 5head in EX3. I think you are under the false assumption that because you still happen to struggle with the game despite using Cactbot, that others must share that experience.

[VirusOnline]

This isn't cheating? You're dellusional.

quite honestly, this is the biggest issue with scripted fights
shrug
i'm not entirely against cactbot but the design team makes it easy to automate
anyone with basic programming knowledge could make a timer on their personal pc cactbot or not that's how scripted it is

make a script for a script
scriptception

[IkaraGreydancer]

Idk...no matter how you spin it you have and advantage over everyone else. Idc if it's just buff timers (even though I've heard there's a mech thats made null when having said knowledge but not sure how true that is), if you are accessing info the game itself isn't giving you at all or as easily I'd say that falls into the unfair camp. The fights are designed and completed without add ons in mind.

I'm not gonna call all of you cheaters but it is scary how so many people rely on add ons

[SamSmoot]

I suppose if you want to see your DPS without additional software, you could prop up your phone to record your battle log off the screen, then go back later and enter it all into a spreadsheet..
Wait, a spreadsheet is additional software. You'd have to transcribe it all on paper by hand (no text editors either), and do the DPS calculations manually. (If you had a stopwatch timing the fight.)

For console users,I suppose someone could build a phone app that watches the battle log onscreen, converts to data via OCR, calculates and displays the results in realtime..

The existing DPS meter just automates this process, while having no effect on the game.

[IdowhatIwant]

Idk...no matter how you spin it you have and advantage over everyone else. Idc if it's just buff timers (even though I've heard there's a mech thats made null when having said knowledge but not sure how true that is), if you are accessing info the game itself isn't giving you at all or as easily I'd say that falls into the unfair camp. The fights are designed and completed without add ons in mind.

I'm not gonna call all of you cheaters but it is scary how so many people rely on add ons

Buff timers are actually given in the game. They are just a pain to view for your party members as you have to actually target them to see the timer.
So it's not really game info that is hidden, the mod just makes it more conveniently placed, which this is hopefully one of the changes they will do.

The game should also give addition information on some things such as your crit chance, and direct hit chance, with out a parser there is no way to accurately get this with out going through the logs and doing a bunch of math that should just be readily available for you.

[Link941]

but u see, that is like saying "anyone can be a billionaire, even u"

just because something is possible, does not mean it has any realistic chance of happening for most individuals

I get what you're saying and I agree to an extent. Possible =/= Feasible. But that just doesn't apply to this scenario. Being a billionaire requires luck more than anything, along with other factors out of your control. None of said factors can be applied to progging ultimate. The closest comparison you can make is streamers getting lucky enough to prog with pros. Even then, despite what many may say, it still took practice and skill on everyone's part. Nobody lucks their way all the way to an ultimate clear.

I'm sorry but I'm arguing semantics more than anything, admittedly. Because the word "necessary" is a very strong word. It defines what is and isn't POSSIBLE. Clearing ultimate would only not be possible if you have some accessibility issue like I already mentioned. If you're an average and healthy person, then these people PROVED that DRU is possible to clear without addons by them and you if you put in as much effort as they did.

[Rolder50]

I suppose if you want to see your DPS without additional software, you could prop up your phone to record your battle log off the screen, then go back later and enter it all into a spreadsheet..
Wait, a spreadsheet is additional software. You'd have to transcribe it all on paper by hand (no text editors either), and do the DPS calculations manually. (If you had a stopwatch timing the fight.)

For console users,I suppose someone could build a phone app that watches the battle log onscreen, converts to data via OCR, calculates and displays the results in realtime..

The existing DPS meter just automates this process, while having no effect on the game.

I dunno man, pencil and paper isn't part of the game, doesn't that make it a third party tool as well? Read and calculate in your mind seems like the only truly safe way.