Third party tools are a game design failing in a multi-platform game

[SwingLifeAway]

Translation: You don't agree with me, so you're wrong.

Translation: "I don't have a follow-up argument because I don't have any idea what I'm talking about, so I'm just going to discredit you with a non-sequitur and live on in my ignorant bubble."

If you don't do the content, stay in your casual lane and mind your own damn business instead of projecting your insecurity into discussions on things you have no experience with.

[Sebazy]

Translation: You don't agree with me, so you're wrong.

The thing is, he isn't wrong.

I've been a member of multiple hardcore FCs with World and EU firsts since this game launched. The only bans within the FC that I can remember are forum bans for discussing optimisation and so forth (such as my 1000 DPS SCH dungeon guide in HW).

Outside of my FCs? The only ban that immediate springs to mind was the organiser of a lot of sales runs back in ARR and HW. What did he get banned for? Asking to be kicked from a dungeon so he could go sort a sale. Probably the only time he was ever genuinely polite too

Don't underestimate how many people are purely interested in their own performance and couldn't care less about what others are doing.

[KariTheFox]

The only time I can recall "harassment" due to parsing was when some random friend of a friend of mine, who was actually a very casual player basically said "lol you all got carried" to a group that had half thier members clearing Zodiark EX for the first time.

And this was like, the first week of Endwalker too.

[JudgeRAW]

Its crazy to me that there are people in this thread attacking WoW's privacy settings when just recently Yoshida said he didn't want to "hurt people's feelings" by having them forcibly remove another person from their friends list or having their marriage ring become unusable. The issues with stalking and harassment in this game have been brought up time and again and people just brush it off likes it not a big deal. Really? Thats the hill people want to die on? As for the argument about parsers leading to bullying and harassment the ToS itself deals with that, regardless of context. You can't do it, if you do you get banned regardless if its because of parsing or some other reason. I've never even heard of someone other than some streamers doing it even though a large portion of the community definitely uses parsers, especially in raid content. Not to mention that a lot of people want to play the game at the highest level possible because they want to be the best. And there is nothing wrong with that. Parsers give them a reference point for improving their gameplay if its needed. Thats it.

Also, UI mods have absolutely no impact on another person's game, at all period. So why does anyone care that another person is using them? If everyone was forced to have the same experience regardless of platform this game would be DEAD on PC(and probably in general) because we'd have been stuck with PS3 level performance. Its a ridiculous argument.

[SwingLifeAway]

So why does anyone care that another person is using them? If everyone was forced to have the same experience regardless of platform this game would be DEAD on PC(and probably in general) because we'd have been stuck with PS3 level performance. Its a ridiculous argument.

Because they don't actually really care about the health of the game, even if they'd like to pretend and try and argue that they do. It is 100% just out of spite, envy, and insecurity.

[Jaquan]

Because they don't actually really care about the health of the game, even if they'd like to pretend and try and argue that they do. It is 100% just out of spite, envy, and insecurity.

Got a wonderful idea then. Let's separate the servers. Console players are separate and we are separate. It will lower the amount of worlds we can play on obviously since SE isn't able to magically spawn them.

Or better yet since console players are obviously getting inferior experience due to their inferior hardware they shouldn't pay the same amount as we do right?

/S

[SwingLifeAway]

Got a wonderful idea then. Let's separate the servers. Console players are separate and we are separate. It will lower the amount of worlds we can play on obviously since SE isn't able to magically spawn them.

Or better yet since console players are obviously getting inferior experience due to their inferior hardware they shouldn't pay the same amount as we do right?

/S

Except that there's no reason to do this because the vast majority of players are happy with knowing they can't use mods on console, and most of them probably don't even really know they exist. The ones that do for the most part don't care, because at worst it has no impact on them and at best it benefits them as well. You think console players in statics want half their static to get banned just for using ACT and fflogs? Get real. The demographic you see complaining are just people trying spite others for having things they can't. There is genuinely no other basis for it, citing Square Enix business model and a bunch of other nonsense is just a convenient vehicle used to validate their point and then be forgotten later when it suits them.

You're making arguments based on extreme situations with 0 knowledge or understanding, in order to create a negative impact on a relatively small demographic that you are not a part of, because you think you have some kind of moral superiority.

The reality is you're just actively going to make the game worse for that group of people, and arguably others, but you're trying to justify your hate crusade against them with this irrational nonsense. Even if the ToS doesn't change, mods will always be part of the game, people will parse, and if you're bad at the game people will know. Cope and seethe.

[Jaquan]

Except that there's no reason to do this because the vast majority of players are happy with knowing they can't use mods on console, and most of them probably don't even really know they exist. The ones that do for the most part don't care, because at worst it has no impact on them and at best it benefits them as well. You think console players in statics want half their static to get banned just for using ACT and fflogs? Get real. The demographic you see complaining are just people trying spite others for having things they can't. There is genuinely no other basis for it, citing Square Enix business model and a bunch of other nonsense is just a convenient vehicle used to validate their point and then be forgotten later when it suits them.

You're making arguments based on extreme situations with 0 knowledge or understanding, in order to create a negative impact on a relatively small demographic that you are not a part of, because you think you have some kind of moral superiority.

The reality is you're just actively going to make the game worse for that group of people, and arguably others, but you're trying to justify your hate crusade against them with this irrational nonsense. Even if the ToS doesn't change, mods will always be part of the game, people will parse, and if you're bad at the game people will know. Cope and seethe.

I thought the big "/S" was telling enough. Next time I'll go with "**SARCASTIC REMARK FROM NOW ON**" although it may not be enough.

In all seriousness though since the game is sold for the same price, with the same subscription costs to both Console Players and PC players and because we're not separated SE has a level of obligation to keep those experiences similar. This is why they can't and won't loosen up the ToS on add-ons. That's not to say they don't want any changes. Otherwise they wouldn't so openly declare their intent to look at UI mods to figure out which features community wants implemented.

[SwingLifeAway]

I thought the big "/S" was telling enough. Next time I'll go with "**SARCASTIC REMARK FROM NOW ON**" although it may not be enough.

In all seriousness though since the game is sold for the same price, with the same subscription costs to both Console Players and PC players and because we're not separated SE has a level of obligation to keep those experiences similar. This is why they can't and won't loosen up the ToS on add-ons. That's not to say they don't want any changes. Otherwise they wouldn't so openly declare their intent to look at UI mods to figure out which features community wants implemented.

They have an obligation to deliver the same product, which they do. Third party addons are not part of that product or that experience. They are managed by the end user at their own risk.

How is it so difficult to understand this?

[Jaquan]

They have an obligation to deliver the same product, which they do. Third party addons are not part of that product or that experience. They are managed by the end user at their own risk.

How is it so difficult to understand this?

Judging by amount of topics that boil down to "ToS stance on mods is dumb, allow us to use them risk free" I'd say very.