Third party tools are a game design failing in a multi-platform game

[Darthgummibear]

The game literally has tight DPS checks in hard content. Parsers and loggers allow you to see where the problem is and address it. Do people use it in the way you describe? Yes, they certainly do. But that doesn't mean that it is all it is. Nuclear energy doesn't just level cities, it can also power them. Just matters how you wield it.

While this technically might be true, gaming history has shown that by far and large people will take any opportunity they can get to gatekeep and belittle others. One of the more notable examples of this exact phenomenon is when the GearScore addon was released during WoW's Lich King expansion. It amplified a toxic element of that community by several orders of magnitude almost overnight.

I would argue that the ones who would use parsing solely as a personal improvement tool are the exception, not the rule.

[LeonKeyh]

Thing is, better graphics and resolution ARE an advantage, in and of themselves. For example, if you do Savage / Ultimate with an ultra-wide screen, you can see the full arena without turning the camera, making mechanics way easier. Especially safe spot type ones.

That's a...stretch.... (yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

Does PS4 support keyboard macros. toggle keys, 18 mice buttons with macro customization? Which is another thing, many gaming keyboard and mice require their manufactures software to function, and a lot them provide access to macro and toggle key tools that normally aren't available to default windows drivers. They're gonna have to start banning hardware too. Or at the very least since we need to ban all 3rd party tools that will include your gaming keyboard/mice as they provide an unfair advantage. Discord too, another unfair advantage. Can't look up anything in a web browser either, technically that's a 3rd party application. Its a gray area because it has to be. Some things are essential to just using a PC that could be considered a 3rd party tool that provides an 'unfair' advantage.

But more importantly there is literally nothing they can do. You think anti-cheat spyware that boots up when you run the game is going to prevent people from using mods? It will make it more difficult for the average player to access QoL improvements and literally do nothing to stop people who are adamant about cheating. Virtual machines can run software outside the games active environment and are therefor not detectable by anti-cheating software. Or you can go one step further and literally run things that sniff your network packets on another machine entirely. People could have their entire raid callouts happening on their laptop next to the PC they're playing FFXIV on. There's absolutely no way SE could do anything to detect or stop that.

I mean, playstation controllers are the equivalent of 52 easily hit buttons, with a fairly easy way of toggling to other hotbars if needed. So, toggle keys, and 18 button mice really aren't necessary. If we're talking about those things if anything controller is better and those macros make up for the shortfalls of KBM.

As for the (overdone, silly) Discord/Web browser argument. It's not that difficult. If it doesn't interact with the game it's not a "third party tool."

Anti-cheat implementation would be incredibly stupid because it's going to hurt more than it helps.

[SwingLifeAway]

I would argue that the ones who would use parsing solely as a personal improvement tool are the exception, not the rule.

And you'd be arguing from a position of no understanding, and in extremely bad faith, much like the rest of the arguments in this thread and on this forum. Do you do difficult endgame content? Judging by your statement, I do not believe that you do.

The vast majority of people I have raided with that use parsers, never talk about them in game, and never harass anyone because they're not stupid and they know it's bad behavior that will get them banned, as it should. I've been playing this game since 2017 and I've never seen anyone get harassed over DPS in matched content, ever. Granted that my experience is not reflective of the entire community, but neither is yours, and neither is your analogy.

Also worth saying that nobody is trying to argue that harassing people over metrics is okay, so not sure why you're even using it as an argument to be honest.

[SaltyDaddy]

So instead of wanting for both platforms to improve (And we all know how slow SE is at improving things), we are going to limit one platforms that enjoys the option of improving their game experience, and thefore fun, because one platform is limited by itself. What a take. Console vs PC is never ending topic old as gaming itself, but console toxicity towards PC mod users, instead of wanting devs to improve game never stops to amaze me.

I would argue that the ones who would use parsing solely as a personal improvement tool are the exception, not the rule.

Do you have any statistic for that? If parsing would be that big problem, more people would talk about its problems, but guess what. Its rare. Its not about the tools, its about people. I can harass you if my enmity on the boss is higher as range dps and you are melee and not even needing parsing program for that.

Nobody cares about perfomance in casual content. In savage, parsing would allow you to see what errors are you making and improve yourself. If you want to be blindly underperfoming, that means you are making game less enjoyable for 7 other people. So no, parsing is not a problem. Parsing software in dumb hands is and they dont even need that parsing software to harass you.

[Jaquan]

One doesn't exclude the other. Add-ons aren't a solution here and it a bad faith argument if you assume Console players don't want improvement.

For parsing... Honestly I lost my faith in humanity here. If the only way a person would recognize their mistake is for a software tyi spell it out... We're screwed

[UkcsAlias]

And again, there is not something like a "proper anti-cheat mechanism". Anti-cheat-mechanisms are useless and dangerous. It is like anti-virus-software. Does it protect you? No. Does it open new security holes into your system? Propably yes.

They are not useless, it deters players from using cheats because detection can have consequences. Without any detection, people would abuse any tool available and break the game massively as result.

The problem is that they are generaly not as effective as you want, and usualy this means that only the users that have an outdated version get banned as a result. But at the same time, it also prevents large platforms from being effective, because the dev themselve can actualy pay for such cheat, make detection for it, and then cause a large scale ban (and this is actualy common to happen).

The main issue starts with rootkit based cheat detection (because a lot of cheats also are rootkits). Rootkits are a security risk by default, a risk that for a cheater is not as bad as for a large company. But at the same time, other rootkits are detectable to exist using a rootkit. And while its hard, when you know how a certain cheat works, you can focus on detecting that cheat. Emulation through a rootkit is difficult, and no company has ever managed to perform this well enough for games, which is why even cheats have this as a weakness).

Thats why its important to take the effort! Even if its not a 100% ban guarantee, just the risk itself makes a lot of people not use it. Even more when reputation matters this can have a heavy impact. This is why your VAC status is shown on steam!

[Inanegrain]

A parser isnt QOL at all..its a tool misused and abused to berate, harass and discriminate against players. Personally Id like to see parsers under a blanket ban. You dont need them to run content and people clear content w/out them easily.

Again, you can report people for harassing if they say "your dps sucks"

You can not report people if they mention "our dps is lacking" because it's the cause of the content.

You think parsers would bother to run with people with 0 intention of doing said content in the first place?

I can report people for going actively afk or respond to question with aggression because they did the same thing people with ACT would say.

[SaltyDaddy]

For parsing... Honestly I lost my faith in humanity here. If the only way a person would recognize their mistake is for a software tyi spell it out... We're screwed

Add-ons shouldnt be a solution, but they somehow are for that part the playerbase. Or you want to tell us, SE is doing a good job at updating the game? Oh right... small indie company. If devs are not up to the task, there comes a community. And mod developers are actually making a good job at providing QoL for people they wanted for so long.

For parsing... Honestly I lost my faith in humanity here. If the only way a person would recognize their mistake is for a software tyi spell it out... We're screwed

Oh right. I forgot you are the best big brain gamer who knows, on which specific mechanic they are trying to double weave during animation lock and lose half a GCD, so you should adjust or do a filler to allign buffs with your party better. Or you just dont even know what parsing is and putting your statements out of thin air.

People want to see how to improve easily, so they can improve quicker. Not everybody is a neckbeard who sits 18h a day at Final Fantasy and wants to prog one savage tier for months, watching VOD of every pull they did.

Its not about being a dependend. Its about making the job simplier. But why am I even losing my time here. You have made your mind.

Thats why its important to take the effort! Even if its not a 100% ban guarantee, just the risk itself makes a lot of people not use it. Even more when reputation matters this can have a heavy impact. This is why your VAC status is shown on steam!

I would rather them to not put effort in anti-cheat client based software that runs in kernel (And as we know SE SW quality, it would end up badly), but rather improve the game so people dont need to use mods. Regular updates to bot/cheat automatic detections would be good enough.

[SwingLifeAway]

Add-ons aren't a solution here and it a bad faith argument if you assume Console players don't want improvement.

You literally don't even have a max level job and you're commenting on endgame raiding while saying our arguments are in bad faith? Decent troll, had me going for a while ngl

[Kazimere]

Plug-ins do not put console players at a disadvantage. Get over yourselves.