Third party tools are a game design failing in a multi-platform game

[Darthgummibear]

The game literally has tight DPS checks in hard content. Parsers and loggers allow you to see where the problem is and address it. Do people use it in the way you describe? Yes, they certainly do. But that doesn't mean that it is all it is. Nuclear energy doesn't just level cities, it can also power them. Just matters how you wield it.

While this technically might be true, gaming history has shown that by far and large people will take any opportunity they can get to gatekeep and belittle others. One of the more notable examples of this exact phenomenon is when the GearScore addon was released during WoW's Lich King expansion. It amplified a toxic element of that community by several orders of magnitude almost overnight.

I would argue that the ones who would use parsing solely as a personal improvement tool are the exception, not the rule.

[SwingLifeAway]

I would argue that the ones who would use parsing solely as a personal improvement tool are the exception, not the rule.

And you'd be arguing from a position of no understanding, and in extremely bad faith, much like the rest of the arguments in this thread and on this forum. Do you do difficult endgame content? Judging by your statement, I do not believe that you do.

The vast majority of people I have raided with that use parsers, never talk about them in game, and never harass anyone because they're not stupid and they know it's bad behavior that will get them banned, as it should. I've been playing this game since 2017 and I've never seen anyone get harassed over DPS in matched content, ever. Granted that my experience is not reflective of the entire community, but neither is yours, and neither is your analogy.

Also worth saying that nobody is trying to argue that harassing people over metrics is okay, so not sure why you're even using it as an argument to be honest.

[Darthgummibear]

And you'd be arguing from a position of no understanding, and in extremely bad faith, much like the rest of the arguments in this thread and on this forum. Do you do difficult endgame content? Judging by your statement, I do not believe that you do.

The vast majority of people I have raided with that use parsers, never talk about them in game, and never harass anyone because they're not stupid and they know it's bad behavior that will get them banned, as it should. I've been playing this game since 2017 and I've never seen anyone get harassed over DPS in matched content, ever. Granted that my experience is not reflective of the entire community, but neither is yours, and neither is your analogy.

Also worth saying that nobody is trying to argue that harassing people over metrics is okay, so not sure why you're even using it as an argument to be honest.

Translation: You don't agree with me, so you're wrong.

[SwingLifeAway]

Translation: You don't agree with me, so you're wrong.

Translation: "I don't have a follow-up argument because I don't have any idea what I'm talking about, so I'm just going to discredit you with a non-sequitur and live on in my ignorant bubble."

If you don't do the content, stay in your casual lane and mind your own damn business instead of projecting your insecurity into discussions on things you have no experience with.

[Sebazy]

Translation: You don't agree with me, so you're wrong.

The thing is, he isn't wrong.

I've been a member of multiple hardcore FCs with World and EU firsts since this game launched. The only bans within the FC that I can remember are forum bans for discussing optimisation and so forth (such as my 1000 DPS SCH dungeon guide in HW).

Outside of my FCs? The only ban that immediate springs to mind was the organiser of a lot of sales runs back in ARR and HW. What did he get banned for? Asking to be kicked from a dungeon so he could go sort a sale. Probably the only time he was ever genuinely polite too

Don't underestimate how many people are purely interested in their own performance and couldn't care less about what others are doing.

[SaltyDaddy]

So instead of wanting for both platforms to improve (And we all know how slow SE is at improving things), we are going to limit one platforms that enjoys the option of improving their game experience, and thefore fun, because one platform is limited by itself. What a take. Console vs PC is never ending topic old as gaming itself, but console toxicity towards PC mod users, instead of wanting devs to improve game never stops to amaze me.

I would argue that the ones who would use parsing solely as a personal improvement tool are the exception, not the rule.

Do you have any statistic for that? If parsing would be that big problem, more people would talk about its problems, but guess what. Its rare. Its not about the tools, its about people. I can harass you if my enmity on the boss is higher as range dps and you are melee and not even needing parsing program for that.

Nobody cares about perfomance in casual content. In savage, parsing would allow you to see what errors are you making and improve yourself. If you want to be blindly underperfoming, that means you are making game less enjoyable for 7 other people. So no, parsing is not a problem. Parsing software in dumb hands is and they dont even need that parsing software to harass you.