Third party tools are a game design failing in a multi-platform game

[Miracle_Diva]

Like the ones that actually added AoE markers to enemy attacks that were previously unannounced. It's only UI tweak right?

But how does it have anything to do with what I said?

[SwingLifeAway]

But how does it have anything to do with what I said?

If you can't win using rational argument, the next best step is to derail the thread. :-)

[Jaquan]

But how does it have anything to do with what I said?

You asked how is wallhack from CS relevant when it comes to UI mods in FFXIV. I asked if you also include the mods that show up things we weren't supposed to see like certain AoEs of bosses. Because to me both CS wallhack and this fall under the same category.

[Miracle_Diva]

You asked how is wallhack from CS relevant when it comes to UI mods in FFXIV. I asked if you also include the mods that show up things we weren't supposed to see like certain AoEs of bosses. Because to me both CS wallhack and this fall under the same category.

Why did you bring CS into this? To fit what narrative? What does wallhack in CS have anything to do with UI tweaks for QoL in 14?

HOW?? Where??
I dun understan

[Alaray]

Why do you only use simple QoL as example of plugins? Seeing other party members cooldowns also falls under the same category and yet posters don't see it as anything other than QoL.

Do you only understand things in binary? I'm not advocating for actual cheats to be used, things that deliberately affect others' experiences, things that deliberately alter the fundamental design philosophy of an encounter, automation of a character etc... I am advocating for plug-ins that are, otherwise, completely harmless and offer things like: being able to see your own CD timers/buff timers/have access to better color filter options/being able to choose whatever track you want to listen to/being able to use ACT etc...

Or do you see something as innocuous as choosing a song the same as fundamentally breaking a fight's core design philosophy?

Is nuance truly so dead? Even when it's hardly even that with such a leap?

[Jaquan]

Do you only understand things in binary? I'm not advocating for actual cheats to be used, things that deliberately affect others' experiences, things that deliberately alter the fundamental design philosophy of an encounter, automation of a character etc... I am advocating for plug-ins that are, otherwise, completely harmless and offer things like: being able to see your own CD timers/buff timers/have access to better color filter options/being able to choose whatever track you want to listen to/being able to use ACT etc...

Or do you see something as innocuous as choosing a song the same as fundamentally breaking a fight's core design philosophy?

Is nuance truly so dead? Even when it's hardly even that with such a leap?

ACT in itself isn't seen as QoL but as a tool. Tool that by high end raiders on PC scene is nowadays seen as mandatory as it gives you insight you'd normally not have without extra work. Tool that ends up speeding progression as it allows to pinpoint issues much more reliably than you'd ever could without it. Same tool that basically eliminated console players from World First Race which frankly prompted YoshiP to once again remind us that plug-ins and add-ons are against ToS.

I won't say I'm against all plug-ins. I'd be a hypocrite if I did. Personally I'd prefer nothing more than just return to the blissful "don't tell, don't show" status quo. Ultimately we're not going to get anything better than that. With plug-ins clocking at close to thousands and the game being cross platform there's no way SE will ever create a curated list of which are good and harmless, and which are basically cheats. Putting aside that it would basically be an official statement that console version is inferior, (yet costs the same and pays same amount for subscription) it would also require to keep all the plug-ins under constant watch as they change. Some of approved could gain undesired functions while some blacklisted might lose ones that made them bad.

[Mosha]

Same tool that basically eliminated console players from World First Race

eh, only if it was a full console team, you just need 1 person on PC.

[Jaquan]

eh, only if it was a full console team, you just need 1 person on PC.

So basically majority of JP as their PC market isn't doing too hot.

[Alaray]

ACT in itself isn't seen as QoL but as a tool. Tool that by high end raiders on PC scene is nowadays seen as mandatory as it gives you insight you'd normally not have without extra work. Tool that ends up speeding progression as it allows to pinpoint issues much more reliably than you'd ever could without it. Same tool that basically eliminated console players from World First Race which frankly prompted YoshiP to once again remind us that plug-ins and add-ons are against ToS.

I won't say I'm against all plug-ins. I'd be a hypocrite if I did. Personally I'd prefer nothing more than just return to the blissful "don't tell, don't show" status quo. Ultimately we're not going to get anything better than that. With plug-ins clocking at close to thousands and the game being cross platform there's no way SE will ever create a curated list of which are good and harmless, and which are basically cheats. Putting aside that it would basically be an official statement that console version is inferior, (yet costs the same and pays same amount for subscription) it would also require to keep all the plug-ins under constant watch as they change. Some of approved could gain undesired functions while some blacklisted might lose ones that made them bad.

Console players can participate in the World Race just fine, but generally people who are that competitive and gung-ho about wanting to be in that incredible minority of people would generally make sure they had whatever they could at their disposal to make success as likely as possible (which also means, better hardware). And if a console player is in the race, there will probably be people in their raid who are using ACT who will inform them of any pertinent pieces of information. Since it's a team. And players talk to each other. Console players aren't anymore eliminated from participating in that race than controller players are, which is to say: they can participate (and, if they're a good enough player a part of a solid enough team, win). There just tends to be a thing when it comes to competitions and competitive people with means, where they will purchase higher quality equipment for the express purpose of tilting odds in their favor further.

Even so, is the unofficial world race such a sacred thing that it's worth ruining everyone else's experiences because of the perceived possibility that of the 100~ odd people in that race, a handful of them don't have access to... ACT on their screen?

[Jaquan]

Even so, is the unofficial world race such a sacred thing that it's worth ruining everyone else's experiences because of the perceived possibility that of the 100~ odd people in that race, a handful of them don't have access to... ACT on their screen?

I'd say so? MMO community always seemed to keep those that reach those heights in high regard. They're often at the forefront when they reach their goal and seen as an example. It apparently is prestigious enough that they're willing to use technically bannable tool to measure their progress.