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  1. #1
    Player
    SwingLifeAway's Avatar
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    May 2022
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    New Gridania
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    Oberon Astraxis
    World
    Moogle
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    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Curisu View Post
    Everything you need to see can be found in the UI.
    Does it need improvements? Maybe, but that gives no one the right to complain about SE banning people for using any ingame 3rd tool.
    You mean, banning people for using features that they will implement later?
    (13)

  2. #2
    Player
    Johners's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    Johners Butcher
    World
    Twintania
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    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway View Post
    You mean, banning people for using features that they will implement later?
    Except we don't know the exact UI changes they're going to make, we just know they're willing to review these plugins and make some changes. They could well implement none of the functions that they've opted to ban people for and even if they did then implement said functionality, it doesn't make it acceptable to break the terms of service now.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    SwingLifeAway's Avatar
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    May 2022
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    Oberon Astraxis
    World
    Moogle
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    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Johners View Post
    even if they did then implement said functionality, it doesn't make it acceptable to break the terms of service now.
    So just let me clarify your stance here, from a moral standpoint, you believe that they should ban someone for using something that doesn't affect anyone else at all one way or the other, but if they implement the same feature into the game, it's not hypocritical or even slightly messed up? Perhaps the TOS is flawed by having literally the most vague description of third party addons possible. It is very simple to narrow down what can and can't be used without referring to specific addons, and yet it remains entirely vague.

    There are several potential resolutions to this issue, I don't see why you are insisting on one that will kill the experience for an entire demographic of the community, that you're not even a part of?
    (5)

  4. #4
    Player
    Johners's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    Johners Butcher
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    Twintania
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    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway View Post
    So just let me clarify your stance here, from a moral standpoint, you believe that they should ban someone for using something that doesn't affect anyone else at all one way or the other, but if they implement the same feature into the game, it's not hypocritical or even slightly messed up? Perhaps the TOS is flawed by having literally the most vague description of third party addons possible. It is very simple to narrow down what can and can't be used without referring to specific addons, and yet it remains entirely vague.

    There are several potential resolutions to this issue, I don't see why you are insisting on one that will kill the experience for an entire demographic of the community, that you're not even a part of?
    The terms of service is intentionally vague for a reason, they all are, because it gives them the freedom to do what they want. More importantly, if they explicitly list the tools you can or can't use, what happens when a tool outside of either list appears? It's actually better to have this vague terms of service than an explicit list when the quantity and quality of plugins is ever evolving. It's written in legalise and it's fundamentally Square Enix giving themselves the legal cover for any bans they may or may not give to players. If they had an explicit list of the 10 plugins you can use and the 10 you can't, numbers are arbitrary for an example, plugin 21 doesn't fit into either category when it comes along and would cause them more problems to deal with that the current vague ToS.

    The solution to the issue is to actually engage with the player base to provide a better quality of life in the game's UI but the solution also means players have to accept a unified toolset and play with it. Having a flat no third-party tools rule is the easiest thing to do going forward though when you consider all the platforms the game is on and this is something Square Enix need to start being upfront about, even if some players just won't play after it.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    SwingLifeAway's Avatar
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    May 2022
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    Oberon Astraxis
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Johners View Post
    It's actually better to have this vague terms of service than an explicit list when the quantity and quality of plugins is ever evolving. It's written in legalise and it's fundamentally Square Enix giving themselves the legal cover for any bans they may or may not give to players. If they had an explicit list of the 10 plugins you can use and the 10 you can't, numbers are arbitrary for an example, plugin 21 doesn't fit into either category when it comes along and would cause them more problems to deal with that the current vague ToS.
    Pretty sure I said in my post above that it's possible to narrow them down, for example by category, whilst still remaining vague and not mentioning specific tools.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johners View Post
    Having a flat no third-party tools rule is the easiest thing to do going forward though when you consider all the platforms the game is on
    No? Because now they have to moderate arbitrary reports from people who get a little giggle from reporting streamers and others for using tools, which takes up time, that could be better used to punish Eureka Bots, RMT bots, etc, things that actually affect both PC and console players in a very serious way. But I guess that's not as important for some reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johners View Post
    this is something Square Enix need to start being upfront about, even if some players just won't play after it.
    So basically, even though these people have done nothing to you, they should just have their game experienced ruined and quit because you think it's a good idea? Yet people will say that those who use addons exclusively ruin the game for other people.
    (4)