Third party tools are a game design failing in a multi-platform game

[SwingLifeAway]

Ui is a huge improvement on that ageing dionsaur they use in WOW

A parser isnt QOL at all..its a tool misused and abused to berate, harass and discriminate against players. Personally Id like to see parsers under a blanket ban. You dont need them to run content and people clear content w/out them easily.

The game literally has tight DPS checks in hard content. Parsers and loggers allow you to see where the problem is and address it. Do people use it in the way you describe? Yes, they certainly do. But that doesn't mean that it is all it is. Nuclear energy doesn't just level cities, it can also power them. Just matters how you wield it.

[Johners]

The game literally has tight DPS checks in hard content. Parsers and loggers allow you to see where the problem is and address it. Do people use it in the way you describe? Yes, they certainly do. But that doesn't mean that it is all it is. Nuclear energy doesn't just level cities, it can also power them. Just matters how you wield it.

Maybe they should take notes from World of Warcraft and provide an official combat logging function. Don't provide a built-in DPS meter, simply provide a function to save the combat log to a text file so users can analyse it afterwards. This is how Warcraft Logs works, you upload the generated log file and go from there. If people choose to take that analysis back into the game for abuse and harassment purposes, that can already be dealt with under the existing terms of service.

[SwingLifeAway]

If people choose to take that analysis back into the game for abuse and harassment purposes, that can already be dealt with under the existing terms of service.

You mean like was the status quo already for ACT before all this drama? The drawbacks of what you propose and a realtime DPS meter are the same, but for some reason realtime DPS meter is not okay? Why is that?

Also, wanting PC players to not be able to use plugins just because console players cannot is very much Crab Mentality. You can't have something just because I can't have something, even though you having it has no impact on me.

[Johners]

You mean like was the status quo already for ACT before all this drama? The drawbacks of what you propose and a realtime DPS meter are the same, but for some reason realtime DPS meter is not okay? Why is that?

Also, wanting PC players to not be able to use plugins just because console players cannot is very much Crab Mentality. You can't have something just because I can't have something, even though you having it has no impact on me.

I don't see how it's grab mentality to address the fundamental game design for a cross-platform game such as FFXIV. This isn't PUBG, for example, is which it's the same game content with entirely separate versions for PC and console, it's one giant game and player base. The same servers, game client, game content and various other in-game mechanics are available equally to everyone with out-of-game tools being the game changer. You have this in some other cross-platform titles but there's also mechanisms in place to actually combat this also and they're largely successful.

[SwingLifeAway]

I don't see how it's grab mentality to address the fundamental game design for a cross-platform game such as FFXIV. This isn't PUBG, for example, is which it's the same game content with entirely separate versions for PC and console, it's one giant game and player base. The same servers, game client, game content and various other in-game mechanics are available equally to everyone with out-of-game tools being the game changer. You have this in some other cross-platform titles but there's also mechanisms in place to actually combat this also and they're largely successful.

You know what, you're right. We should also hard cap all PC players to 720p 30 FPS to make sure it's the same as other platforms, and all players are on equal footing. /s

Other people using UI mods and parsers does not affect you. If they use it to affect you, they should be banned, otherwise not. You literally just want to take something that people enjoy using away from them because some people cannot use it. It is nonsensical at best and malicious at worst.

[Darthgummibear]

The game literally has tight DPS checks in hard content. Parsers and loggers allow you to see where the problem is and address it. Do people use it in the way you describe? Yes, they certainly do. But that doesn't mean that it is all it is. Nuclear energy doesn't just level cities, it can also power them. Just matters how you wield it.

While this technically might be true, gaming history has shown that by far and large people will take any opportunity they can get to gatekeep and belittle others. One of the more notable examples of this exact phenomenon is when the GearScore addon was released during WoW's Lich King expansion. It amplified a toxic element of that community by several orders of magnitude almost overnight.

I would argue that the ones who would use parsing solely as a personal improvement tool are the exception, not the rule.

[SwingLifeAway]

I would argue that the ones who would use parsing solely as a personal improvement tool are the exception, not the rule.

And you'd be arguing from a position of no understanding, and in extremely bad faith, much like the rest of the arguments in this thread and on this forum. Do you do difficult endgame content? Judging by your statement, I do not believe that you do.

The vast majority of people I have raided with that use parsers, never talk about them in game, and never harass anyone because they're not stupid and they know it's bad behavior that will get them banned, as it should. I've been playing this game since 2017 and I've never seen anyone get harassed over DPS in matched content, ever. Granted that my experience is not reflective of the entire community, but neither is yours, and neither is your analogy.

Also worth saying that nobody is trying to argue that harassing people over metrics is okay, so not sure why you're even using it as an argument to be honest.

[Darthgummibear]

And you'd be arguing from a position of no understanding, and in extremely bad faith, much like the rest of the arguments in this thread and on this forum. Do you do difficult endgame content? Judging by your statement, I do not believe that you do.

The vast majority of people I have raided with that use parsers, never talk about them in game, and never harass anyone because they're not stupid and they know it's bad behavior that will get them banned, as it should. I've been playing this game since 2017 and I've never seen anyone get harassed over DPS in matched content, ever. Granted that my experience is not reflective of the entire community, but neither is yours, and neither is your analogy.

Also worth saying that nobody is trying to argue that harassing people over metrics is okay, so not sure why you're even using it as an argument to be honest.

Translation: You don't agree with me, so you're wrong.

[SwingLifeAway]

Translation: You don't agree with me, so you're wrong.

Translation: "I don't have a follow-up argument because I don't have any idea what I'm talking about, so I'm just going to discredit you with a non-sequitur and live on in my ignorant bubble."

If you don't do the content, stay in your casual lane and mind your own damn business instead of projecting your insecurity into discussions on things you have no experience with.

[Sebazy]

Translation: You don't agree with me, so you're wrong.

The thing is, he isn't wrong.

I've been a member of multiple hardcore FCs with World and EU firsts since this game launched. The only bans within the FC that I can remember are forum bans for discussing optimisation and so forth (such as my 1000 DPS SCH dungeon guide in HW).

Outside of my FCs? The only ban that immediate springs to mind was the organiser of a lot of sales runs back in ARR and HW. What did he get banned for? Asking to be kicked from a dungeon so he could go sort a sale. Probably the only time he was ever genuinely polite too

Don't underestimate how many people are purely interested in their own performance and couldn't care less about what others are doing.