Is Pyromancer getting a perm ban for having Dalamud?

[KyraAu]

Then that's a line he should be judged on. You won't get an argument from me there. But again, I take his conduct, and his stances, as separate issues. I'd advice as such to anyone here to follow suit.

If he's been forced to change his stance on what he felt was strictly quality of life - which was a lot of what you just listed off. So much the better. You might call it a bad faith argument - that will depend on what goes back on the mod list once this whole fiasco cools down. But I don't subscribe to the 'slippery slope' argument because the first step itself is the violation. If you're a streamer, you're at risk no matter what you pick on a mod list. It's the degree of that risk depends on the degree of the mods. Pyromancer's behavior exacerbates the issue, but it isn't the issue. He's just more likely to get targeted and reported because he's been toxic about it. Let's see what happens once he's had time to think and reflect.

But that standard becomes more gray when a private player who's not broadcasting mods get a better experience. That's where all this gets dirty and muddy for me, and I don't like where we're at between the modded and unmodded experience is now. I think SE needs more focus on improving their moment to moment quality of life when it comes to the UI to ease that discrepancy. Ultimately that's the best approach.

I understand you don't like the concept of "slippery slope" but it's pretty reductive to say that it is that, when the slipping around is being done right now, actively

you said "But that standard becomes more gray when a private player who's not broadcasting mods get a better experience."

I fully agree with that, that's where this whole thing comes into issue here for me.

Regardless of his personal feelings, he is actively advocating no matter what he says his stance is, or what his conduct shows. He is saying "This is okay, fuck you if you say otherwise". Including at the devs lol.

Any streamer right now actively streaming mods and saying "I should be able to do this, it's dumb otherwise" are taking stances. They are not private players, they broadcast the IP of SE in a state that is against the ToS objectively.

That is where the bad faith comes from. He specifically said he has issue with streamers being "Targeted, just because there's video evidence of them".

There does come a point where conduct and stance are inseparable man, not everything can be separated into bite sized issues



/e I'd like to add, before he even logged into FF14 yesterday, he openly said "I have to turn off everything in order to not get banned, I guess that's just how it is". And then about 30 minutes later logged in, showcased all of his mods and what they do, said he doesn't want to play without them, and then proceeded to play and talk shit with mods showing the whole time.

[Hyrist]

I understand you don't like the concept of "slippery slope" but it's pretty reductive to say that it is that, when the slipping around is being done right now, actively

you said "But that standard becomes more gray when a private player who's not broadcasting mods get a better experience."

I fully agree with that, that's where this whole thing comes into issue here for me.

Regardless of his personal feelings, he is actively advocating no matter what he says his stance is, or what his conduct shows. He is saying "This is okay, fuck you if you say otherwise". Including at the devs lol.

Any streamer right now actively streaming mods and saying "I should be able to do this, it's dumb otherwise" are taking stances. They are not private players, they broadcast the IP of SE in a state that is against the ToS objectively.

That is where the bad faith comes from. He specifically said he has issue with streamers being "Targeted, just because there's video evidence of them".

There does come a point where conduct and stance are inseparable man, not everything can be separated into bite sized issues

I think you're misinterpreting where I'm making that split. Which is odd because you're acknowledging the split here.

I really don't think we're disagreeing - so let's break this down again.

Pyromancer's broadcasting of Mods is a condemned of it, and a condemnation of the stance of the TOS. This makes him no different than someone else who uses similar mods and streams with zero toxicity.
Pyromancer's behavior in his previous deleted stream is an exacerbation of that stance - drawing more attention and ire his way.

Note that we're talking about one streamer over another, even though others are equally guilty of the violation.
So his attitude is a separate issue here. One makes the other worse. Had he calmly stated that he turne off what he thought was too dark of a grey area, and is choosing to take a risk with the remaining and left it at that, this likely wouldn't be an official forum conversation citing him personally as major factor.

[KyraAu]

I think you're misinterpreting where I'm making that split. Which is odd because you're acknowledging the split here.

I really don't think we're disagreeing - so let's break this down again.

Pyromancer's broadcasting of Mods is a condemned of it, and a condemnation of the stance of the TOS. This makes him no different than someone else who uses similar mods and streams with zero toxicity.
Pyromancer's behavior in his previous deleted stream is an exacerbation of that stance - drawing more attention and ire his way.

Note that we're talking about one streamer over another, even though others are equally guilty of the violation.
So his attitude is a separate issue here. One makes the other worse. Had he calmly stated that he turne off what he thought was too dark of a grey area, and is choosing to take a risk with the remaining and left it at that, this likely wouldn't be an official forum conversation citing him personally as major factor.

The reason I'm talking about pyro here is because this thread is literally about him, and he's the only person who's taken an aggressive stance about this since the first bans went out. That's the only reason. So we should just not talk about him until more people are doing the same?

" Had he calmly stated that he turne off what he thought was too dark of a grey area"

No, not really. Streaming any of the addons and saying "This is okay" when the developer said it is not, multiple times in the last few months, and even more times in the last 2 years (yoshi even said "don't use addons, we're not asking" in 2020) is not something that would be overlooked

the issue here IS the fact that he is openly taking a stance that some mods don't fit what SE says is ToS. That is untrue. Factually untrue. It's a bad faith stance for him to take, and anyone defending it as if it's reasonable just because of QoL etc is where that bad faith is enabling more of the same.

As I edited in my last comment,

"before he even logged into FF14 yesterday, he openly said "I have to turn off everything in order to not get banned, I guess that's just how it is". And then about 30 minutes later logged in, showcased all of his mods and what they do, said he doesn't want to play without them, and then proceeded to play and talk shit with mods showing the whole time."










His stream is going live right now titled as "Let's Talk" so I guess he's going to speak for himself here now. Lets see how this goes.

[aveyond-dreams]

His stream is going live right now titled as "Let's Talk" so I guess he's going to speak for himself here now. Lets see how this goes.

Please report back your findings, given the state he was in yesterday I would have thought he would have taken some time to cool down-as in several days, not less than 24 hours. I don't mean any ill will towards him but now is the time for him to step back and try to find some inner peace.

[KyraAu]

Please report back your findings, given the state he was in yesterday I would have thought he would have taken some time to cool down-as in several days, not less than 24 hours. I don't mean any ill will towards him but now is the time for him to step back and try to find some inner peace.

IT's not going well.

He started off accepting his actions as bad, but he said he's copyright striking people because they're misrepresenting him and "made in poor taste" quote

He's abusing the system for copyright because he doesn't like what they're saying. Openly admitted.

It's now him reading ADHD symptoms to explain his actions.


he went into some of the stuff people were doing, threatening to raid discord, found his facebook, reporting him on twitch for hate speech etc. All bad shit done by pathetic people who always have to take things 1000 degrees higher than the situation warrants



I will say though he's still got a pretty bad view on why this came about, this stuff probably isn't helping which is why like aveyond said above, should take more time than this before coming into the light again.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

IT's not going well.

He started off accepting his actions as bad, but he said he's copyright striking people because they're misrepresenting him and "made in poor taste" quote

He's abusing the system for copyright because he doesn't like what they're saying. Openly admitted.

It's now him reading ADHD symptoms to explain his actions.

I mean. He CAN get sued for that, as it's not legal to use dmca in that way. He's opening up a can of worms lol....

[KyraAu]

I mean. He CAN get sued for that, as it's not legal to use dmca in that way. He's opening up a can of worms lol....

Yea I don't think anyone involved is going to take it to that point, but yes regardless of anything that is blatantly using youtubes act first question later system to abuse a legal thing on the basis of "protecting" himself, which is part of what he said

"I am going to use the tools available to me to protect myself"

[Cach]

I mean. He CAN get sued for that, as it's not legal to use dmca in that way. He's opening up a can of worms lol....

Was about to comment that, video creators take DMCA abuse very seriously and if someone with a bigger viewership takes a hold of this... It's going to get fun, lmao.