CC ranking system is simply bad

[Scghost]

Some people will never accept the fact that in MOBA style game modes, when you get hard stuck and literally can't move, you have found what rank you are. It's always somebody elses fault. I'm guilty of it myself in the past, just how it is and how it always will be.

That would be fine if it was a 1 vs 1 thing or if the system would reward me for my skills. But it simply isn't the case here. The ranking system would be fine if you didn't get punished for losing. Again, I personally usually had mvp in dmg, time, kills and assists. I took screenshots of all my loses and ties with my score cuz I found it really stupid and hilarious at the same time. Losing like 10 matches in a row and de-ranking feels to me like a huge waste of time and would infuriate the must seasoned pvper.

[Tsugikai]

Can’t tell what you’re doing wrong without seeing gameplay and don’t have it in me to write a book about every aspect of pvp to cover every base, but if you want you can join revival discord and post a clip in clip_review. Pretty much anyone who trolls around in that channel will easily be able to give good advice for improving past hardstuck bronze

https://discord.com/invite/pvprevival

I would suggest mentioning you’re trying to get out of bronze so people know how detailed/nitpicky they should be with the advice

Not thrilled to have to join another discord but it is what it is. Tyvm! I was hoping they would have some good prizes for the first season of CC but I guess that was asking to much for now XD. Trying to get better as prep for later seasons but, obviously, I am stuck and frustrated. Hopefully being BRD is a good dps for me personally.

Joined but christ that's a lot to take in. Are we able to "record duty" for pvp? (Tsugikai btw)

[YukikoKurosawa]

Some people will never accept the fact that in MOBA style game modes, when you get hard stuck and literally can't move, you have found what rank you are. It's always somebody elses fault. I'm guilty of it myself in the past, just how it is and how it always will be.

Except it's entirely RNG whether or not you win, an winstreaks reward people who are lucking out to begin with, making it even easier if you're already winning consistently. When you have no control over who you group with / against it ceases to be a measure of skill. The hilarious level of cope and mental gynmastics of people in Crystal who think because they got lucky with winstreaks / queing at the same time as friends to drastically increase the odds of grouping with said friends / cheated who refuse to admit it's not this system isn't about merit at all never ceases to annoy me.

These same people will then say it's "too easy" to rank up, and admit there are bad players in the highest ranks.

Well goligee, I thought ranks were an indicator of skill. Which one is it?

[YukikoKurosawa]

That would be fine if it was a 1 vs 1 thing or if the system would reward me for my skills. But it simply isn't the case here. The ranking system would be fine if you didn't get punished for losing. Again, I personally usually had mvp in dmg, time, kills and assists. I took screenshots of all my loses and ties with my score cuz I found it really stupid and hilarious at the same time. Losing like 10 matches in a row and de-ranking feels to me like a huge waste of time and would infuriate the must seasoned pvper.

This as well. It doesn't matter how good you, you can't carry 4 bad players, you can only increase the likelyhood you will win but you are not going to singlehandedly carry a bad team and if you just get unlucky with comps than you're SOL.

The whole lose of rank for losing is completely indefensible and encourages poopsocking to the maximum degree which for that reason alone, not just because it's terrible and invalides time spent (you can actually LOSE progress for an entire day of gameplay, even if you're poopsocking).

[Lustre]

And how would the system determine the mvp? Most damage done? Most healing? Least damage taken? I promise you, at least 50% of the time, most damage done is not the team mvp. BEFORE the buff, BLK was almost all most damage done, and Summoner is almost always most damage done. Except it's spread out AoE that was all but ignored, so thats out the window? Most healing done? I've seen WHM pump out over 1M healing just from their 15 second CD LB, and then they run away, so thats out.

Least damage taken? Well I'll afk in base, free half star.

There is absolutly no way to do this unless somebody was to watch each match.

Overall performance determined by algorithm? Comparing performance of that job across different games, gleaming an average and then comparing all stats? I dont think it'd be as difficult as you're making out. If balance is your concern, CC already doesnt have any, so that's no worry

[Niyuka]

In every multiplayer team based pvp game ever, ranking up or down has always only been tangentially related to skill. Statistically, about half of the players get unlucky with matchmaking at any given time. If you are in the unlucky half, you have to carry a lot harder to advance. Thats just fact. If you are in the lucky half, you have to suck hard not to win. Same principle. We dont hear from the lucky ones, because the feedback is "you did right, you advanced".
Its really simple to test: play two different accounts or characters, with the same class. I did that in LoL, in Valorant, in DOTA 2 and here. Turns out, I end up in vastly different ranks after the same number of games.
Thus proven: randomness plays a significant factor.
My main character in CC is currently Crystal, my second is pretty hardstuck in gold. Both WHM only.
Did I get lucky on my main or unlucky on the alt? I ll never know.

[ThaCa]

There are some people who fell upwards with very lucky streaks, there are late joiners that had to grind a lot of games and there are competent players who got into Crystal at fairly low number of games played.

Despite all the randomness, good players will overcome it even if it can take a bit longer with extreme bad luck.

I have 2 characters in Crystal and 3rd one in Diamond with very few losses so far. First one played with SCH/BRD, second with SGE, 3rd one with the currently broken BLM (and it shows with, less than 30 wins and in Diamond already).

The ranking system is geared to get people up if they grind games since even less than 50% winrate can get you to Crystal if your wins are streaks, if you are stuck for extended period in some bracket then it's more likely an user issue rather than the system.

Can they system be improved? Yes. Crystal rank has rating system that actually rewards a variable amount of rating based on the teams so it's not all black and white like in ranks below, however the system seems fairly loosely tuned as most games seem to give +/- 90 to 105 points. A slightly larger range would help since some teams perform with absurd level of difference. Also people who get into Crystal start at 100 points, this means that one loss has them around 0 which means they have nothing to lose and are free to play Jobs they have little experience in or taking massive risks in matches due practically no penalty for losing. If Crystal started at something like 1000 or even 2000 the system would have much better idea of player skills as they even out over time, those at low Crystals in such system would have vastly different weight in matchmaking than in the current one.

Expanding the rating system to whole width of ranks would be nice and if they really want to help people climb, have a diminshing winstreak bonus based on rank until Crystal could help. The star system has no weight on teams and treats winstreaks as incredibly potent gains.

[YukikoKurosawa]

What I've noticed is the people who are enjoying Ranked are generally Crystal players (mostly who ranked up super fast), where as the people who are not enjoying it are hard stuck in lower teirs.

Really makes you think.

[ThaCa]

What I've noticed is the people who are enjoying Ranked are generally Crystal players (mostly who ranked up super fast), where as the people who are not enjoying it are hard stuck in lower teirs.

Really makes you think.

From my experience going through the lower ranks, they are far more volatile. Individual skill differences and game plans are so all over the place that every game is a huge gamble and while your carry potential is bigger there, your team's potential to throw is a lot bigger than in Crystal where most people actually regroup after staggered team wipe. It can be incredibly frustrating to deal with the inconsistency and trying to form your own gameplay style or rack up experience and learning when things that worked in previous game might do nothing in the next.

I can understand the frustration when you barely get to play the same game and instead of having a good fight fairly often it instead just ends up feeling like coinflip. Hopefully they figure out how to remedy this in future, it would be nice if everyone had a chance to enjoy the gameplay.

[Gserpent]

From my experience going through the lower ranks, they are far more volatile. Individual skill differences and game plans are so all over the place that every game is a huge gamble and while your carry potential is bigger there, your team's potential to throw is a lot bigger than in Crystal where most people actually regroup after staggered team wipe. It can be incredibly frustrating to deal with the inconsistency and trying to form your own gameplay style or rack up experience and learning when things that worked in previous game might do nothing in the next.

I can understand the frustration when you barely get to play the same game and instead of having a good fight fairly often it instead just ends up feeling like coinflip. Hopefully they figure out how to remedy this in future, it would be nice if everyone had a chance to enjoy the gameplay.

I think the best place to start is to simply dramatically widen the leveling process and make team-balancing a bit stricter. I think longer queue times are acceptable, within reason, if they more consistently result in balanced games (can't control for player attitudes and behavior but that's why we have GMs right?) I certainly don't mind waiting a few minutes between games if it means games are a bit more balanced and enjoyable. But right now the process for leveling is so fast, and takes so little time, that it ceases to have meaning. At bare minimum, every tier except unranked should have 5 risers, of 5 stars each.

Win streak bonuses should be changed to bonus Wolf Marks, XP, Series XP, and PvP XP instead of bonus stars (and thus Crystal could then have win streaks again too.) Break the tiers up into matchmaking brackets. Unranked through Silver 5, Silver 4 through Gold 2, Gold 1 through Diamond 1, and Crystal is its own thing. Assign a point value to each rank, riser, and star count and attempt to balance teams such that their totals are equivalent. Crystal would also need revision - I'd recommend starting at 1000 rating and *at least* doubling the current gains/losses per game, and change the math so that as you get higher and higher in rating, you reach a point where you win substantially fewer points than you would lose for games where there is a substantial rating discrepancy between teams.

Alternatively, Crystal could be changed such that you lose no points on a loss, and instead you can only ever gain points (you would start at 0 Rating in this case.) I think the former system would be better for a competitive ladder, but I frankly like the idea of the latter more because it suits a "casual competitive" game like CC better, IMO.