Use of tools that allow players to more easily complete content. Discord?

[sagacious]

Will SE's official translation do?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...802-14-2020%29




They claim both ACT and voice chat programs like Discord are ambiguous. Logically, we can assume they sit in a similar space as far as the devs are concerned because they are mentioned together and classified the same way; that's how classification works. But it seems ACT is now not so ambiguous, so it's a legitimate question to ask them to clarify. The ultimate point is the "grey area" term came from SE themselves, and they've now apparently decided there is no grey area. So people want to know what falls where.

They do go on to talk about specific implementations of plugins that could be actionable, but to my knowledge the streamer was that banned only had a DPS meter, so it's not relevant to the actions SE has taken.

Asmongold says discord is a "separate party tool," not a third party because it does not interact with the game files

[Risvertasashi]

Unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation in this thread. Go look up Yoshi P's talk from 2 years ago.

Even using excel or discord could be seen as third party tool use - in that previous speech, Yoshi uses both Discord and Excel as examples by name. So, yes, SE could ban you for it. Obviously, it would be ridiculous for them to do so, but the TOS is worded such that even those cross the line.

And, personally, I think this policy is stupid and plenty of other devs manage to outline what's acceptable and what's not, so it's not nearly as impossible as Yoshi keeps saying. But they'd rather have a blanket ban on everything, and leave us guessing on what exactly they won't enforce and occasionally change the enforcement as in the last day or two.

Asmongold says discord is a "separate party tool," not a third party because it does not interact with the game files

Asmongold does not speak officially for the development team/square enix. Yoshida does.

[Gemina]

Asmongold says discord is a "separate party tool," not a third party because it does not interact with the game files

Asmongold is not an employee of SE, nor does he represent any of their affiliates.

This is the most accurate post I have read in regards to discord...

Is this a personal opinion, because i see nowhere where discord is clarified as a usable 3rd party tool by an official square enix representative.

People can say what they want, but until square enix fronts up and lists what is and is not a tool, then everything is considered against ToS.

@segacious. No matter how you want to look at it, Discord is not supported by SE, and console players don't have access to it. Can you be disciplined for using it? Technically, yes you can. Will you be? No, it is extremely unlikely anyone will even be warned for just using Discord. Be that is it may, this isn't as ambiguous as people would like to make it out to be. If the shout outs in discord to tell you where to go makes you feel like it made the content easier, that more likely has to do with just doing what you were told instead of actually understanding the mechanics so you don't need to be. If you don't want to feel that way, then don't use Discord for shout outs.

[Brynne]

@segacious. No matter how you want to look at it, Discord is not supported by SE, and console players don't have access to it.

Eh, that's a stretch. Console players can use their phones, or a laptop, to voice chat on Discord all they want. Only very special cases would not have access to discord if they wanted to use it. In any case, PC players don't have access to PS4's native voice chat and it's not supported by SE, so by the same logic it should also be against TOS. But I don't think it is. I also don't think discord is. SE would have to be mad to say "no voice chatting with your friends while you play".

[Skiros]

Discord does NOT fall into the category "natively" of what SE consider's a third party tool by definition.

"Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited:

- Modifying, analyzing, integrating, and/or reverse-engineering game software or data."

Discord does not modify game files.
Discord does not analyze the game files.
Discord does not integrate with the game files.
Discord is not reverse engineering the game files.

But then again, I feel people who reference Discord with this line of reasoning are being intellectually dishonest as you know what they are referring to.

Obviously there are also people fishing for them to take a stance on Discord. And there is the obviously waiting GOTCHA moment when they do that in regards to ACT callouts and if they ban someone for that.

Discord literally puts an overlay on the game window.

[Raoabolic]

Discord literally puts an overlay on the game window.

So does steam, m8. Can we ban steam as well!?

[Havenchild]

Discord literally puts an overlay on the game window.

The overlays are not interacting with your game files. Discord interfaces with the OS system files. The overlay can appear with many different programs not game related. Discord doesn't even know where your game files specifically are located just what's your "main" screen.

Discord overlay works by hooking into the game. It's very similar to things like re/gshade, though not quite the same.

There's a reason it had an issue with setting off anti-cheat on games like Destiny in the past.

You mean this?

That's an official post.

Please
Try
Again

I know they can use their laptops and/or phones. It doesn't change that the console itself does not have access to discord. You have to use another device on top of the USB controller and Keyboard. Ever have to use 3-4 remote controllers to use a TV? It's kind of like that. Plus, like I pointed out to Segacious, I was disappointed that players just wanted to tell me where to go instead of actually explain how the mechanic works. I figured it would be more convenient considering you don't have to type up a wall of text. Nah. I was totally wrong about that.

Anywho, the thing about your argument where you say, "SE would have to mad to say no voice chatting with your friends", is that players are interpreting Yoshi's statements as exactly that. It is very similar to what we what just went through with the Adventure Plates, and players are asking to be more clear about what is and isn't allowed. Anyone with a firm head on their shoulders will know that the answer to this is far too broad. All they can really do is define for their customers what a third party tool is. And now you get players mockingly saying, "Is THIS a third party tool?" "What about THAT SE, am I going to get banned for THIS?" It makes this person sound like a third grader, looking for loopholes in the regulations and the enforcer's logic.

People are not misinterpreting his comments. They are willfully being intellectually dishonest about what he is saying or implying to try and justify their loophole arguments. It's the same reason they want the devs to come out and say "Discord is allowed" because they know that by doing so, it opens the gate on automated callouts in Discord channels.
It's a trap being set for the devs, because if they later decide to ban for "automated callouts" on a stream, people can then say " BUT YOU SAID DISCORD WAS ALLOWED"

Let's cut the BS.

[EagleDynamics]

People need to stop being balantly obtuse. We all know what kind of programs SE means we dont need a list.

i dont know about that. the japanese streamer that got banned was using harmless mods

[Gemina]

Eh, that's a stretch. Console players can use their phones, or a laptop, to voice chat on Discord all they want. Only very special cases would not have access to discord if they wanted to use it. In any case, PC players don't have access to PS4's native voice chat and it's not supported by SE, so by the same logic it should also be against TOS. But I don't think it is. I also don't think discord is. SE would have to be mad to say "no voice chatting with your friends while you play".

I know they can use their laptops and/or phones. It doesn't change that the console itself does not have access to discord. You have to use another device on top of the USB controller and Keyboard. Ever have to use 3-4 remote controllers to use a TV? It's kind of like that. Plus, like I pointed out to Segacious, I was disappointed that players just wanted to tell me where to go instead of actually explain how the mechanic works. I figured it would be more convenient considering you don't have to type up a wall of text. Nah. I was totally wrong about that.

Anywho, the thing about your argument where you say, "SE would have to mad to say no voice chatting with your friends", is that players are interpreting Yoshi's statements as exactly that. It is very similar to what we what just went through with the Adventure Plates, and players are asking to be more clear about what is and isn't allowed. Anyone with a firm head on their shoulders will know that the answer to this is far too broad. All they can really do is define for their customers what a third party tool is. And now you get players mockingly saying, "Is THIS a third party tool?" "What about THAT SE, am I going to get banned for THIS?" It makes this person sound like a third grader, looking for loopholes in the regulations and the enforcer's logic.

[Larirawiel]

Discord does not modify game files.
Discord does not analyze the game files.
Discord does not integrate with the game files.
Discord is not reverse engineering the game files.

This is also the case with ACT. It does also not touch the game files. So it should be allowed, right?


Cheers