Why not a warning?

[VerdeLuck]

This is a misunderstanding of my position and the totality of communication. The communication hasn't been strictly "THIS IS AGAINST RULES DO NOT DO IT" its been much softer to the point of the takeaway being: "Don't harass people, don't actively advertise it, and we will leave you alone"

That was not the communication, that was the community's misinterpretation of it. If you don't harass people or bring it up no one can know. If you don't harass people or bring it up no one can report you. It doesn't mean it's safe to use as long as you don't harass people.

[Atelier-Bagur]

This is a misunderstanding of my position and the totality of communication. The communication hasn't been strictly "THIS IS AGAINST RULES DO NOT DO IT" its been much softer to the point of the takeaway being: "Don't harass people, don't actively advertise it, and we will leave you alone"

big quotes "dont actively advertise it". What do you think streaming is?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

This is a misunderstanding of my position and the totality of communication. The communication hasn't been strictly "THIS IS AGAINST RULES DO NOT DO IT" its been much softer to the point of the takeaway being: "Don't harass people, don't actively advertise it, and we will leave you alone"

No, I'm pretty sure it was more along the lines of "don't do it! But we can't scan your pc to see if you are using it. But it is 100% prohibited to use them"

[Xiu_Ye]

big quotes "dont actively advertise it". What do you think streaming is?

Do you know what actively means?

[IkaraGreydancer]

Do people really think a 10 day ban after years of calling things grey areas and 'just don't harass people' is an appropriate response? Don't come in saying "THEY HAVE THE RIGHT", no one cares or argues they are within their rights. I'm not even saying "let them have the tools still..." I'm simply saying that pulling them to gaol, warning them, and then letting them go when they remove the offending material, accomplishes the same effect without making half the userbase angry that people are being pulled mid-prog for sudden 10-day bans.

Please dont reply with no thought comments. Actually think about the question I'm presenting and give real reasons why a ban is better than a warning in this scenario with the context of how things have been treated.

"Its against the rules no sympathy" posts miss the point entirely.

We've been warned numerous times tbf. Let's not play games here. Folks have been playing with fire this entire time. 10 days seems fine when we've been warned for years

[ManaEterna]

Do people really think a 10 day ban after years of calling things grey areas and 'just don't harass people' is an appropriate response? Don't come in saying "THEY HAVE THE RIGHT", no one cares or argues they are within their rights. I'm not even saying "let them have the tools still..." I'm simply saying that pulling them to gaol, warning them, and then letting them go when they remove the offending material, accomplishes the same effect without making half the userbase angry that people are being pulled mid-prog for sudden 10-day bans.

Please dont reply with no thought comments. Actually think about the question I'm presenting and give real reasons why a ban is better than a warning in this scenario with the context of how things have been treated.

"Its against the rules no sympathy" posts miss the point entirely.

I'm not going to say whether I agree or not with what SE did, but I will say that there was actually a 30-ish (?) long part of one of the PLL where Yoshi-p specifically took a hard stance against thid party tools. So it's not like it's not exactly unknown at this point.

[VirusOnline]

Do people really think a 10 day ban after years of calling things grey areas and 'just don't harass people' is an appropriate response? Don't come in saying "THEY HAVE THE RIGHT", no one cares or argues they are within their rights. I'm not even saying "let them have the tools still..." I'm simply saying that pulling them to gaol, warning them, and then letting them go when they remove the offending material, accomplishes the same effect without making half the userbase angry that people are being pulled mid-prog for sudden 10-day bans.

Please dont reply with no thought comments. Actually think about the question I'm presenting and give real reasons why a ban is better than a warning in this scenario with the context of how things have been treated.

"Its against the rules no sympathy" posts miss the point entirely.

A ban will never be better than a warning.
In no situation has putting someone directly into jail without a trial ever been considered fair.
Strikes should always add up to bans.

To me, this is pure brute force.
The ToS' grey areas are grey probably for the pure fact that SE and the GMs can interpret it and the punishment as they see fit.

Also, if an area is grey and not strictly defined and up for interpretation on the producer's part but not for the consumer - then the punishment of being banned for a service you are paying for (which again has no clearly defined rules and also has a social rule that is "don't ask don't tell") is completely unfair especially moreso if the account has never had a strike. We blame a consumer for grey interpretation that is the fault of the producer ? The rules are grey for a reason.

One of the biggest issues is that YoshiP condones some 3rd party tools and then yet again says "NO 3RD PARTY TOOLS".
Mixed signals much ?

[Havenchild]

Do you know what actively means?

I'm pretty sure at this point, you are trying to pretend to be willfully ignorant, or just plain old oblivious. Your supposed question has been answered countless times in this thread.

Players have been warned several times.
They are in the right to go as heavy handed as they want to.

10Days, despite the countless interview and lodestone written warnings, is actually LENIENT if you ask me.
So stop trying to act like this isn't fair.

Fair was SE more or less saying, "we can't see it but we don't want people doing it" -> Translation for the impaired -> If we catch you, you can get in trouble"

Streaming it openly provides them the proof to "catch you".

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

A ban will never be better than a warning.
In no situation has putting someone directly into jail without a trial ever been considered fair.
Strikes should always add up to bans.

To me, this is pure brute force.
The ToS' grey areas are grey probably for the pure fact that SE and the GMs can interpret it and the punishment as they see fit.

Also, if an area is grey and not strictly defined and up for interpretation on the producer's part but not for the consumer - then the punishment of being banned for a service you are paying for (which again has no clearly defined rules and also has a social rule that is "don't ask don't tell") is completely unfair especially moreso if the account has never had a strike. We blame a consumer for grey interpretation that is the fault of the producer ? The rules are grey for a reason.

It's a 10 day suspension. Aka strike 1.

[xenahawk]

Do people really think a 10 day ban after years of calling things grey areas and 'just don't harass people' is an appropriate response? Don't come in saying "THEY HAVE THE RIGHT", no one cares or argues they are within their rights. I'm not even saying "let them have the tools still..." I'm simply saying that pulling them to gaol, warning them, and then letting them go when they remove the offending material, accomplishes the same effect without making half the userbase angry that people are being pulled mid-prog for sudden 10-day bans.

Please dont reply with no thought comments. Actually think about the question I'm presenting and give real reasons why a ban is better than a warning in this scenario with the context of how things have been treated.

"Its against the rules no sympathy" posts miss the point entirely.

Look i get why some players use 3rd party tools and some are harmless enough but in a world where as players we all have been warned numerous times by yoshida about use of such tools and being told dont use them but we cant see whats on your computer so if you do use them the only way they would know is if you publicize it. So in a nutshell if you chose to ignor all the warning because you werent personally notified dont mean there werent warnings. Hell ten days not much of a ban anyhow