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  1. #1
    Player
    Issaella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    115
    Character
    Emmylou Sugarbean
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 40
    Quote Originally Posted by Rilifane View Post
    There is nothing to lead in any PF.
    Creating a party doesn't mean you have to do call outs, answer questions, be ahead with mechanics, offer advice and corrections, provide macro or markers or anything of that sort. All it means is that you can set the requirements as you desire (ilvl, classes, other options, description) and have the option to kick someone if they don't perform according to the standards you set.
    Many people creating a practice party in PF don't even have markers or a macro or any clue about what's going on. They just created the party, that's it. And nobody expects anything from them.
    You just set it to "practice", uncheck "Duty Complete" and "Duty Complete (Weekly Reward Unclaimed)" as these two options prevent people without a clear from joining, add "helpers welcome" and "bring macro/ markers" if you don't have but want them and you're done.
    Once you're confident with certain mechanics you add "from mechanic X onwards" next time you set up PF.
    I'm going to be frank, why would anyone join a party like that? It would have zero chance of success or progressing at all? It's not only wrangling a group of cats, but it's essentially say "f' it let the cats run around and do whatever they want". If I were going to join a PF group for prog for p2s then I wouldn't touch a group like that with a ten foot pole. It would in no way assist me in gaining experience or knowledge. I would expect that someone leading a group would at least have some idea what is going on and how to help with issues beyond just hoping more experienced people can join and sort it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rilifane View Post
    All these misconceptions you have come from a lack of experience but clinging to them won't help you. Why not believe people that are telling you otherwise from experience and be glad that it's not nearly as gloomy as you thought it to be and give it a go?
    I created plenty of parties during my 1st tier in ShB, it's not complicated and nothing was expected from me because creating a party doesn't mean anything. And there are plenty of "7 other people" out there who perform the mechanics just fine.
    My experience PuGing Unreal on my alt would beg to differ with you. Having it on farm on my main and then trying to PuG it exclusively in Duty Complete reclear/retell parties on my alt is frequently infuriating. And that is only in groups that everyone has ostensibly cleared the encounter before. That is really what I'm basing a lot of my trepidation on truthfully. If I can't even expect baseline competence from people that have cleared something not to make everything miserable/harder than it has to be, then what hope do I have for Savage? And I am by no means exempting myself, who has no experience at all. And compared to Unreal/Ex the margin for error might as well be zero.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    KariTheFox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    541
    Character
    Hikari Tamamo
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Issaella View Post
    I'm going to be frank, why would anyone join a party like that?
    Because, if you set it up to include people who have already gotten thier weekly clears, you will draw from experienced raiders who actually enjoy teaching the fights, probably cleared them all tuesday night, and are bored out of thier minds because their group isn't progging Ultimate that night.

    I personally know a few highly skilled raiders who spend s lot of thier time teaching fights that they cleared week one, simply because they find it fun to teach people.
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    Issaella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    115
    Character
    Emmylou Sugarbean
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 40
    Quote Originally Posted by KariTheFox View Post
    Because, if you set it up to include people who have already gotten thier weekly clears, you will draw from experienced raiders who actually enjoy teaching the fights, probably cleared them all tuesday night, and are bored out of thier minds because their group isn't progging Ultimate that night.

    I personally know a few highly skilled raiders who spend s lot of thier time teaching fights that they cleared week one, simply because they find it fun to teach people.
    I guess this is another fundamental disconnect as to what PF is supposed to be in this game. Coming from WoW if you list a PuG raid you are expected to lead that raid. At the bare minimum you should have the experience to know most of the fight you are trying to PuG and tell people what they should be doing if needed. Listing something and then expecting others to pick up the slack feels extremely selfish to me and wouldn't have much chance of sucess in my experience. I would expect the same thing in any group that I would join, let alone volunteer to lead.

    And as a side note, one of the things that absolutely kills me about Savage is that if you have people who are experienced then you are giving up half or all of your chance at a reward. The game literally penalizes you for including people in the group who have cleared. So you either have to eat pavement in hopes of getting a clear with similarly inexperienced people or call in assistance (if you even know anyone who can) and cut your chance of reward in half or lose it completely. What kind of sense is that?
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Colt47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,809
    Character
    Kan Himaa
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Issaella View Post
    I guess this is another fundamental disconnect as to what PF is supposed to be in this game. Coming from WoW if you list a PuG raid you are expected to lead that raid. At the bare minimum you should have the experience to know most of the fight you are trying to PuG and tell people what they should be doing if needed. Listing something and then expecting others to pick up the slack feels extremely selfish to me and wouldn't have much chance of sucess in my experience. I would expect the same thing in any group that I would join, let alone volunteer to lead.

    And as a side note, one of the things that absolutely kills me about Savage is that if you have people who are experienced then you are giving up half or all of your chance at a reward. The game literally penalizes you for including people in the group who have cleared. So you either have to eat pavement in hopes of getting a clear with similarly inexperienced people or call in assistance (if you even know anyone who can) and cut your chance of reward in half or lose it completely. What kind of sense is that?
    Yeah, this has been a problem for a while now. Obviously the dev team or the team lead over there doesn't think so but the way the loot system works contributes to the problems over on the NA servers at the very least. If you join a static for example you basically give your soul to that group and can't even help another group without stepping on the toes of both thanks to the system. If the loot was a personal lockout system things would improve immensely.

    I don't remember even why they made the system the way they did or if they ever bothered to say anything about it, but I've assumed that they originally put it in place to discourage groups selling clears to others. It doesn't really do that and mostly just makes this a whole lot more frustrating and inflexible in terms of when and with whom people do savage with.
    (1)
    Last edited by Colt47; 05-15-2022 at 06:31 AM.

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