The difficulty curve in the game has... problems...

[KariTheFox]

Seem my above point. I have zero experience in Savage content. How would I possibly have enough knowledge/experience to lead a prog party? Let alone one that has any chance of completion?

Okay, here's what you do. Make a learning/prog PF, and write down the specific mechanic or phase you want to work on - and then also write "0-1 chest, experienced players welcome", and make sure to uncheck the "Weekly Reward Unclaimed" box when you make the PF. Now the player pool that can join the PF won't just be people who haven't cleared the fight yet, but also experienced raiders who are bored and happy to teach/help learn a fight.

And this is the point I and other have been making in this whole thread that a lot of people don't seem to grasp. If you have zero experience with Savage then the difficulty is so high above any previous content as to feel like there is no starting point that will eventually lead to completion. And there is no gradual lessening of difficulty over the life of the current tier that would conceivably allow people who are behind/late to start to catch up. You are stuck starting at the beginning with only other people who are similarly behind/less experienced to bash your head against a wall until the next tier comes out and there is no one doing the content at all.

It's true that the curve is a bit wonky in places (though I think the step from Hydaelyn EX to P1S is actually pretty smooth), nobody starts out being experienced with savage content. The only way to learn the fights is to practice them until you're familiar with them. Even in a group that is doing poorly, you can make sure to focus on yourself and your own performance. Everyone except you died to one mechanic? Try to stay alive long enough to see the next one and execute whatever it needs of you.

[Issaella]

It's true that the curve is a bit wonky in places (though I think the step from Hydaelyn EX to P1S is actually pretty smooth), nobody starts out being experienced with savage content.

Literally anyone who has done any previous Savage content before is lightyears ahead of people just starting. This is where the problem/disconnect fundamentally lies IMO. Not only do you need to wrap your brain around the mechanics of a specific raid boss you first have to wrap your brain around how Savages in general work and how completely unforgiving they are to even a single mistake. All this with no starting point of knowledge and no method of gaining it except constant and repeated failure. You can't lower the learning curve with gear. You can't lower it with addons without risking your account. You can't lower it really with more experienced player because you have no frame of reference to build on. Even joining a Savage prog you are expected to have a baseline of knowledge and experience that there is really no way to obtain without having done Savage before. Anyone who is trying to get into Savage content now is the weakest link in any prog party, period.

Honestly, I don't begrudge people just starting Savage the crutch that some of those addons provide, at least it would give a frame of reference and a baseline of competence that might make them more confident moving forward. I sometimes feel it would be a lot easier to just use them for the clear, get what I want, and then be done with it so I can go back to doing other things. But alas, I'm not risking my 4k+ hours of progress on a arbitrarily enforced ToS violation.

[LianaThorne]

Literally anyone who has done any previous Savage content before is lightyears ahead of people just starting. This is where the problem/disconnect fundamentally lies IMO. Not only do you need to wrap your brain around the mechanics of a specific raid boss you first have to wrap your brain around how Savages in general work and how completely unforgiving they are to even a single mistake. All this with no starting point of knowledge and no method of gaining it except constant and repeated failure. You can't lower the learning curve with gear. You can't lower it with addons without risking your account. You can't lower it really with more experienced player because you have no frame of reference to build on. Even joining a Savage prog you are expected to have a baseline of knowledge and experience that there is really no way to obtain without having done Savage before. Anyone who is trying to get into Savage content now is the weakest link in any prog party, period.

Honestly, I don't begrudge people just starting Savage the crutch that some of those addons provide, at least it would give a frame of reference and a baseline of competence that might make them more confident moving forward. I sometimes feel it would be a lot easier to just use them for the clear, get what I want, and then be done with it so I can go back to doing other things. But alas, I'm not risking my 4k+ hours of progress on a arbitrarily enforced ToS violation.

For someone who's never done savage you're talking a lot like you have.

You have people telling you it's possible and has been done. Let go of your fear and actually try it instead of holding on to a tight grip of assumptions. Fresh progs exist and even blind progs where knowledge of the fight prior isnt even required. Again, give it a try instead of arguing with people who have actually done it. Thanks.