Tale of Emet [FF14 x Nier Reincarnation event story]

[Vyrerus]

The thing about the Sundered on the Shards is that they all still have physical bodies. What's more is that they have physical bodies of the same size and shape as people of the Source.

This means on a physical level, they are just as much a being as any Sundered from the Source.


With what we learned from, "In from the Cold" was that a physical body matters a great deal when it comes to expressing power. Hell, we learned that from our battle with Hades. "I AM STIFLED BY THIS VESSEL OF FLESH!" In all the ways that a bigger soul matters, it seems that for the most part, at least via Aether power expression, a big whole soul cannot express 14/14ths power through a Sundered body.

And that's before we go into all the ways technique can matter. Like, hell, for as strong as the WoL is they still succumb to the effects of a roofie in Heavensward. Ultimate Godslayer, Popeslayer, Dragonslayer extraordinaire... laid low by a barmaid. It's little wonder there's a bit of confusion when it comes to power levels and power level expression.

When we went to The First, we went to a post-apocalyptic world where every being had been surviving for a century by whatever means necessary. We fought the physical creme of the crop, those who could take did. Those creatures that were strong lived. Leveling in Shadowbringers pre-stat squish felt to me like a formality. The Ran'jit battle was a poor expression of antagonist power if you played tank when SHB first dropped, particularly if you played DRK. Between The Blackest Night and the other tank cooldowns, it was possible to negate more than half the damage of Ran'jit's down for the count Raiton(his Fire and Thunder moves are rehashes of Ninja's Katon and Raiton, while his Snake's moves are Alte Roite moveset). With the regen from the solo duty buff, this meant you would be down for the count on DRK with full HP, not sweating at all.

Compare that to the Zenos battles where once Zenos flexes his crimson aura, your damage drops to double/triple digits and you miss thanks to level difference 25% of the time...

We then get Ran'jit's backstory, and he's been the head coach of Eulmore's military for like half of the century or however long it's supposed to have been for him to have raised half a gaggle of Minfilias and teach them how to fight. We can conclude that he had a very strong body and mastery level of the techniques he employed. All very impressive, but then we have Thancred able to fight him to a standstill as a Solid Light ghost employing shells charged by Ryne and a technique only available to him due to his ghostly state. This is Thancred fighting with a set of skills he's only had for less than half a decade with only his soul mimicking his physical body, which I suppose is still wearing aetherially enhanced garments.

All in all, everything is a big mess, but for as much of a mess as it is, it's nice to see that a lot of the small things like finesse, armor, drugs, temperature, and all that jazz still matter to some degree in this story about slaying gods and would-be gods and man-made gods. In this way, it's very much like reading Greek or Norse mythology wherein depending on whose account of a God you're reading, stuff like Zeus getting his tendons cut by an Adamant sickle causes him to lose his first bout with Typhon.

[Absimiliard]

Consider for a moment also how the shards were originally evenly spread - or at least as close to evenly spread as Venat could manage. We know there were some... errors, but that's a discussion for another thread. Since every shard began with essentially the same aetheric density and its inhabitants similar physical forms, it stands to reason even multiple rejoinings would not change the differences in physical parameters. Aetheric density is what rejoinings appear to improve, and we've already seen how little that actually matters most of the time.

As an aside, I might note the WoL is in fact holding back 99.9% of the time. Even against most primals.

[Cleretic]

As an aside, I might note the WoL is in fact holding back 99.9% of the time. Even against most primals.

You're gonna need to cite a source for that one, because that sounds like something I've never seen said anywhere in the story, by anyone, ever.

EDIT: And in fact, would be kind of a tremendous negative about the WoL if it were true. Do you mean they could've just dunked on Bismarck right away, thereby saving everyone in the Sea of Clouds a whole lot of trouble? That Haurchefaunt died protecting someone who at best would've been minorly bleeding from that shot? That they could've soloed the entire Twelfth Legion, but wanted the local resistances to feel like they contributed?

[Dikatis]

You're gonna need to cite a source for that one, because that sounds like something I've never seen said anywhere in the story, by anyone, ever.

EDIT: And in fact, would be kind of a tremendous negative about the WoL if it were true. Do you mean they could've just dunked on Bismarck right away, thereby saving everyone in the Sea of Clouds a whole lot of trouble? That Haurchefaunt died protecting someone who at best would've been minorly bleeding from that shot? That they could've soloed the entire Twelfth Legion, but wanted the local resistances to feel like they contributed?

The only thing I can remember is Ysayle mentioning that seeing WoL battle Ravana is the first time she's seen WoL bring their all to bear since their battle at Akh Afah Ampitheatre. Which speaks much more about the idea of breaking your limits via dynamis than WoL purposefully holding back even in life-or-death situations.

Never since we first fought have I seen you draw upon the full extent of your power...and never from afar till this day. You were a marvel to behold, [Player Name]. Well...'tis time we rejoined our companions. They will be eager to hear the tale...and to continue our journey.

[Vyrerus]

The only thing I can remember is Ysayle mentioning that seeing WoL battle Ravana is the first time she's seen WoL bring their all to bear since their battle at Akh Afah Ampitheatre. Which speaks much more about the idea of breaking your limits via dynamis than WoL purposefully holding back even in life-or-death situations.

Ysayle is merely remarking that she hasn't seen us fight at full strength since we fought Shiva, as we haven't had to fight anything with all of our being till that point in her short time accompanying us. You know, a few wild beasts and Gnath in the Dravanian Forelands is all she's seen us do between her fight with us and our fight with Ravana.

She's basically just saying, "Man, when you go all out, it's heckin' cool!"

It's less an expression of, "The WoL holds back a lot of the time." and more an expression of, "There are few beings that truly push the WoL."

In other words, it's not that the WoL holds back a lot of the time. It's that the WoL doesn't need to try. A minor effort on their part ends most confrontations, at least with anything average or middling that doesn't get the drop on them.

[Cleretic]

Ysayle is merely remarking that she hasn't seen us fight at full strength since we fought Shiva, as we haven't had to fight anything with all of our being till that point in her short time accompanying us. You know, a few wild beasts and Gnath in the Dravanian Forelands is all she's seen us do between her fight with us and our fight with Ravana.

She's basically just saying, "Man, when you go all out, it's heckin' cool!"

It's less an expression of, "The WoL holds back a lot of the time." and more an expression of, "There are few beings that truly push the WoL."

In other words, it's not that the WoL holds back a lot of the time. It's that the WoL doesn't need to try. A minor effort on their part ends most confrontations, at least with anything average or middling that doesn't get the drop on them.

...you were right on most of that post, but you blew it with that last paragraph. I don't think the WoL is ever not trying, because that brings in the same problem; if the WoL was half-assing it in the Vault, then it's their fault Haurchefaunt died, and that doesn't sound like the character we know.

What I take that line to mean is, yes, that the WoL doesn't hold back against Ravana (or Shiva). That's not the same as not trying any other times; in fact, that might be trying even harder. I hate comparing the WoL to Superman, but he's the character that's had this explored a few times, how he constantly has to be careful to make sure he doesn't kill anyone. But realistically this is closer to how Batman or Green Arrow handle; frankly it would probably be easier for them to go in for the kill, but they make the effort not to. In fact, remember that in the time Ysayle was traveling with us at that point, we'd mostly just fought wild animals for their meat, and the gnath; the former we are DEFINITELY being more careful about because we needed some good cuts from, and the gnath aren't exactly a physically robust people. Ravana's probably the only time since our fight with her that she's actually seen us go for the no-holds-barred kill, and that's mostly because she hadn't seen us doing much.

You don't have to worry about surviving materials or collateral damage with a primal, and in that brief time she'd been traveling with us at that point, Ravana was the first time we weren't worrying about that.

[Absimiliard]

You're gonna need to cite a source for that one, because that sounds like something I've never seen said anywhere in the story, by anyone, ever.

EDIT: And in fact, would be kind of a tremendous negative about the WoL if it were true. Do you mean they could've just dunked on Bismarck right away, thereby saving everyone in the Sea of Clouds a whole lot of trouble? That Haurchefaunt died protecting someone who at best would've been minorly bleeding from that shot? That they could've soloed the entire Twelfth Legion, but wanted the local resistances to feel like they contributed?

The first source I would cite is Ysayle, who by that point has seen the WoL engaging numerous seemingly very powerful enemies. She outright says she hasn't seen us bring our all to bear since we fought her. Granted, she missed quite a few fights between, but the battles she did witness the WoL take part in were of a nature that should have warranted a fair bit of exertion. The Scions have also had a few quips to that extent of their own, one even having taken place as late as Shadowbringers. Were I not at work I'd go dig up the exact quote. My third point of reference: "Breaking limits as only a true Warrior of Light can." This buff is gained only in situations where extreme effort is supposed to be required. Many of these occasions do not entail emotions running high on the WoL's part.

The above said, I do believe you're taking things to a bit of an extreme. Holding back is not the same as being able to immediately overcome every challenge on one's own. We've already seen the WoL's full strength being brought to bear on numerous occasions, and it usually isn't the kind of thing that will allow you to straight up solo an army or slap Bismarck out of the sky (in lore, anyway; at this point I'm convinced three of the four tanks are mechanically capable of it rofl). At any rate, holding back is something we all do. It isn't a conscious choice in most situations, but it can be. The WoL, like any other mortal, would burn out and die very quickly if they marched into every battle running at 100%.

The deal with Ran'jit, though... I think we can all agree that was just bad writing and decision making. Even someone as experienced as him should not have been able to put up that much of a fight, though I suppose it's somewhat made up for by how comically weak he is the last time you fight him. It wasn't exactly the most ideal way of showing that we had to "learn how" to fight him. Dude goes from being non-threatening outside of a forced down for the count to getting absolutely steamrolled.

[KageTokage]

I'm curious as to why some people even care about what is being discussed.

There's no small number of bystanders who love to just chime in about how tired and dragged on certain discussions are without actually contributing to them.

If they were perfectly satisfied with the story, they could just ignore the naysayers picking it apart.

[Alleo]

I'm curious as to why some people even care about what is being discussed.

There's no small number of bystanders who love to just chime in about how tired and dragged on certain discussions are without actually contributing to them.

If they were perfectly satisfied with the story, they could just ignore the naysayers picking it apart.

I think its quite fine to have discussions about different topics. I dont have a problem with that over 480 pages long thread about the endwalker story. If people want to discuss it that much then power to them. I can go about my day ignoring it because it does not interest me. I have a problem though if I want to discuss another topic in a thread dedicated to that topic and people derail it so much just to talk about certain points again thus bascially turning that topic into the other one. For me it feels like a interesting discussion was lost.

I guess I can only answer for myself though but this is what I take from it. And if you have no interest in arguing about something that is bascially off-topic and it happens in many threads, than one can get a bit bitter about that. That does not say that any derail is bad (imo). Sometimes new, interestings points can come up that is in some way still on topic. But often the off topic is bascially just the opinons that already existed in threads more fit to that view.

[Lyth]

I think the reason why people find those discussions to be boring is because the topics are largely recycled and have nothing new to offer in terms of understanding lore. It just amounts to a pop-up ad that keeps showing up in the background that you can't quite get rid of. You can bump it all you want, but the conversation's by and large been had.

Just as a fun little observation, you can actually see the breakdown of any thread on the forum by poster. All that you need do is click on the 'Replies/Views' section. Some threads are literally around because there's 7-10 people alternating chest compressions on it.