Tale of Emet [FF14 x Nier Reincarnation event story]

[Absimiliard]

You're gonna need to cite a source for that one, because that sounds like something I've never seen said anywhere in the story, by anyone, ever.

EDIT: And in fact, would be kind of a tremendous negative about the WoL if it were true. Do you mean they could've just dunked on Bismarck right away, thereby saving everyone in the Sea of Clouds a whole lot of trouble? That Haurchefaunt died protecting someone who at best would've been minorly bleeding from that shot? That they could've soloed the entire Twelfth Legion, but wanted the local resistances to feel like they contributed?

The first source I would cite is Ysayle, who by that point has seen the WoL engaging numerous seemingly very powerful enemies. She outright says she hasn't seen us bring our all to bear since we fought her. Granted, she missed quite a few fights between, but the battles she did witness the WoL take part in were of a nature that should have warranted a fair bit of exertion. The Scions have also had a few quips to that extent of their own, one even having taken place as late as Shadowbringers. Were I not at work I'd go dig up the exact quote. My third point of reference: "Breaking limits as only a true Warrior of Light can." This buff is gained only in situations where extreme effort is supposed to be required. Many of these occasions do not entail emotions running high on the WoL's part.

The above said, I do believe you're taking things to a bit of an extreme. Holding back is not the same as being able to immediately overcome every challenge on one's own. We've already seen the WoL's full strength being brought to bear on numerous occasions, and it usually isn't the kind of thing that will allow you to straight up solo an army or slap Bismarck out of the sky (in lore, anyway; at this point I'm convinced three of the four tanks are mechanically capable of it rofl). At any rate, holding back is something we all do. It isn't a conscious choice in most situations, but it can be. The WoL, like any other mortal, would burn out and die very quickly if they marched into every battle running at 100%.

The deal with Ran'jit, though... I think we can all agree that was just bad writing and decision making. Even someone as experienced as him should not have been able to put up that much of a fight, though I suppose it's somewhat made up for by how comically weak he is the last time you fight him. It wasn't exactly the most ideal way of showing that we had to "learn how" to fight him. Dude goes from being non-threatening outside of a forced down for the count to getting absolutely steamrolled.

[Vyrerus]

The only thing I can remember is Ysayle mentioning that seeing WoL battle Ravana is the first time she's seen WoL bring their all to bear since their battle at Akh Afah Ampitheatre. Which speaks much more about the idea of breaking your limits via dynamis than WoL purposefully holding back even in life-or-death situations.

Ysayle is merely remarking that she hasn't seen us fight at full strength since we fought Shiva, as we haven't had to fight anything with all of our being till that point in her short time accompanying us. You know, a few wild beasts and Gnath in the Dravanian Forelands is all she's seen us do between her fight with us and our fight with Ravana.

She's basically just saying, "Man, when you go all out, it's heckin' cool!"

It's less an expression of, "The WoL holds back a lot of the time." and more an expression of, "There are few beings that truly push the WoL."

In other words, it's not that the WoL holds back a lot of the time. It's that the WoL doesn't need to try. A minor effort on their part ends most confrontations, at least with anything average or middling that doesn't get the drop on them.

[Cleretic]

Ysayle is merely remarking that she hasn't seen us fight at full strength since we fought Shiva, as we haven't had to fight anything with all of our being till that point in her short time accompanying us. You know, a few wild beasts and Gnath in the Dravanian Forelands is all she's seen us do between her fight with us and our fight with Ravana.

She's basically just saying, "Man, when you go all out, it's heckin' cool!"

It's less an expression of, "The WoL holds back a lot of the time." and more an expression of, "There are few beings that truly push the WoL."

In other words, it's not that the WoL holds back a lot of the time. It's that the WoL doesn't need to try. A minor effort on their part ends most confrontations, at least with anything average or middling that doesn't get the drop on them.

...you were right on most of that post, but you blew it with that last paragraph. I don't think the WoL is ever not trying, because that brings in the same problem; if the WoL was half-assing it in the Vault, then it's their fault Haurchefaunt died, and that doesn't sound like the character we know.

What I take that line to mean is, yes, that the WoL doesn't hold back against Ravana (or Shiva). That's not the same as not trying any other times; in fact, that might be trying even harder. I hate comparing the WoL to Superman, but he's the character that's had this explored a few times, how he constantly has to be careful to make sure he doesn't kill anyone. But realistically this is closer to how Batman or Green Arrow handle; frankly it would probably be easier for them to go in for the kill, but they make the effort not to. In fact, remember that in the time Ysayle was traveling with us at that point, we'd mostly just fought wild animals for their meat, and the gnath; the former we are DEFINITELY being more careful about because we needed some good cuts from, and the gnath aren't exactly a physically robust people. Ravana's probably the only time since our fight with her that she's actually seen us go for the no-holds-barred kill, and that's mostly because she hadn't seen us doing much.

You don't have to worry about surviving materials or collateral damage with a primal, and in that brief time she'd been traveling with us at that point, Ravana was the first time we weren't worrying about that.

[Iscah]

...you were right on most of that post, but you blew it with that last paragraph. I don't think the WoL is ever not trying, because that brings in the same problem

I think it's just a manner of speech. Of course the WoL puts in effort, but average beasts don't take much effort for them.

Also, Haurchefant's death is partly because (I suspect) it likely happened very fast and was slowed down on screen for drama, and partly because we just have been giving our all against a small army and three demi-primals. We're not at full battery and it happens too quick for us to react, let alone muster up any dynamis-driven emotional strength.

[Vyrerus]

you blew it

Well, the context for the WoL barely trying is, "Swings sword at full strength one time." Rather than, "Swing sword at full strength 240 times."

We are always acting with our full power behind everything, but this is a game where the challenging stuff takes time (more swings).

Also, all it would take for us to get good cuts of meat from an animal is decapitating the animal or crushing its head. Also what Iscah said.

[Alleluia]

On and on and on it goes...

Until death takes you into its gentle embrace.

Or the new patch comes out and people find other points to argue about.

[KageTokage]

I'm curious as to why some people even care about what is being discussed.

There's no small number of bystanders who love to just chime in about how tired and dragged on certain discussions are without actually contributing to them.

If they were perfectly satisfied with the story, they could just ignore the naysayers picking it apart.

[Alleo]

I'm curious as to why some people even care about what is being discussed.

There's no small number of bystanders who love to just chime in about how tired and dragged on certain discussions are without actually contributing to them.

If they were perfectly satisfied with the story, they could just ignore the naysayers picking it apart.

I think its quite fine to have discussions about different topics. I dont have a problem with that over 480 pages long thread about the endwalker story. If people want to discuss it that much then power to them. I can go about my day ignoring it because it does not interest me. I have a problem though if I want to discuss another topic in a thread dedicated to that topic and people derail it so much just to talk about certain points again thus bascially turning that topic into the other one. For me it feels like a interesting discussion was lost.

I guess I can only answer for myself though but this is what I take from it. And if you have no interest in arguing about something that is bascially off-topic and it happens in many threads, than one can get a bit bitter about that. That does not say that any derail is bad (imo). Sometimes new, interestings points can come up that is in some way still on topic. But often the off topic is bascially just the opinons that already existed in threads more fit to that view.

[Lyth]

I think the reason why people find those discussions to be boring is because the topics are largely recycled and have nothing new to offer in terms of understanding lore. It just amounts to a pop-up ad that keeps showing up in the background that you can't quite get rid of. You can bump it all you want, but the conversation's by and large been had.

Just as a fun little observation, you can actually see the breakdown of any thread on the forum by poster. All that you need do is click on the 'Replies/Views' section. Some threads are literally around because there's 7-10 people alternating chest compressions on it.

[SannaR]

One thing and I know it probably comes off as silly or makes people raise an eyebrow as a why does this bother you is the part that hints at Emet being a late night party-er. His presundered self just doesn't come off as someone who'd suggest going to Kareoke late at night and doing some drunken singing. Course again we have no clue as to what Ancients enjoyed doing after a long day at work. Or on their off days. Post sundering Emet on the other hand I can definitely see going to enjoy a smoky lounge singer while nursing a nice glass of scotch. It is a little sad that the story hints at that seeing the WoL on the first being the first time he's spotted the sundered soul of Azem. Some of the arguments about how quickly the sundered people would forget how to speak, write or understand the presundered language reminds me of the forgetting of technology thread.