Can we talk about 3rd party tools and disability?

[georgiams]

Because the whole point of an encounter is for you to be able to understand and be in control of what is happening in order to survive and beat it, if you fail to do that after a number of wipes because of an internal disability that doesnt let you comprehend what is going on then you are simply not able to complete that type of content, its the truth and reality no matter how harsh it sounds.

Addons that trivialize mechanics like timers and mechanic announcing should never be allowed no matter how much a person feels they "need" them, not only they trivialize mechanics, they make people depend on them so much so that they suddenly cant function when the addons are broken because they NEVER UNDERSTOOD the mechanics in the first place.

It is quite simple, if you hire someone to do a job, you expect them to do the job, if they cant do the job because of an internal disability you simply find an able person to do it. This is reality, I care about results, feel free to care about empathy and feelings if you wish but that does not justify giving advantages to some so they feel they are on equal ground.

And certain features that don't disrupt anyone else's game and or experience can allow people to understand and be in control of what's happening. The thing is, that there are systems that exist that let players with disabilities be on par with everyone else. Other games use them, and not using them is just turning people away from the game that doesn't have those features and onto a game that does. It's not like FFXIV raids are hard, you can afk or auto attack or heal yourself and not participate and still get by fine. No one can tell if you aren't participating much at all in the first place let alone call you out for it and have any evidence to support it. There is harder end game content and 5 man parties that people who have disabilities would struggle doing. If such things easily exist to let everyone participate in the fun, why not have it implemented?

timers and mechanic announcing honestly just prevents constant wiping more than anything. I've been in groups that have taken hours because we wiped constantly on multiple boss fights. Even when you understand the mechanics you can still slip up and having something to let you know whats coming can help, if you really don't need something like that, then don't use it. But there are people that benefit from that sort of thing for many reasons. It also doesn't affect you. You can get by in this game without knowing all that much about your job or boss fights anyway, it would be nothing but an improvement to save people's time and help people who can't go as fast as everyone else. The fact that there are rights for people with disabilities justifies giving features in games to help them play on par with everyone else. The fact that those features so easily already exist justify the reasoning to just add them to the game.

[Avidria]

Dude, this is a video game, not a job. Literally all people want is better options native to the game so nobody needs addons to play it without getting a headache or squinting three inches from the screen. I mean heck half the problems I have personally stem from the ridiculous and obnoxious bright flashing lights and smoke and single color "color schemes" SE seems so fond of. My biggest desire would be for them to stop designing fights with so much unecessary visual clutter, and to add more and better options for UI customization (like what elements are linked and being able to hide/separate more of them) and font scaling. That's it.

I haven't seen anyone ask for anything so out there that it'd somehow ruin the "challenge" or anything. Exactly what features here would trivialize the content and how?

[Ralphe2449]

if you really don't need something like that, then don't use it.

Yeah I am sure people love working harder just so a few can play on easymode with training wheels. The people without such addons need to be more aware, more capable and more efficient compared to the person that relies on such addons and never truly learns because they depend on them like training wheels that never go off, so we got a person who works harder and a person who has their hand held permanently in the same group, this is extremely unbalanced.

And as i explained earlier, those addons shouldnt be tolerated in general to avoid the slippery slope of addon dependence and trivialization of mechanics that has happened in WoW.

If you are not capable of being aware of the encounter's mechanics why are you in that encounter? If you really want the reward you can always buy it from a boost or through an FC but dont pretend you are able to beat it on equal ground like everyone else.

[JanVanding]

Because the whole point of an encounter is for you to be able to understand and be in control of what is happening in order to survive and beat it, if you fail to do that after a number of wipes because of an internal disability that doesnt let you comprehend what is going on then you are simply not able to complete that type of content, its the truth and reality no matter how harsh it sounds.

Addons that trivialize mechanics like timers and mechanic announcing should never be allowed no matter how much a person feels they "need" them, not only they trivialize mechanics, they make people depend on them so much so that they suddenly cant function when the addons are broken because they NEVER UNDERSTOOD the mechanics in the first place.

It is quite simple, if you hire someone to do a job, you expect them to do the job, if they cant do the job because of an internal disability you simply find an able person to do it. This is reality, I care about results, feel free to care about empathy and feelings if you wish but that does not justify giving advantages to some so they feel they are on equal ground.

If a company fails to make accommodations for a disability or purposely excludes someone from the hiring process or from a position that they are capable of doing with those recommended accommodations

That company would be sued by the state for discrimination.

Your straw man doesn't even hold up in your own what if scenario.

[Ralphe2449]

If a company fails to make accommodations for a disability or purposely excludes someone from the hiring process or from a position that they are capable of doing with those recommended accommodations

That company would be sued by the state for discrimination.

Your straw man doesn't even hold up in your own what if scenario.

That is why they often dont hire them to begin with, and dont assume the entire world works under your hyper liberal standards, many countries allow for firing people for failing to do their job consistently even if they try to use a disability excuse to avoid the consequences of their failure.

[JanVanding]

That is why they often dont hire them to begin with, and dont assume the entire world works under your hyper liberal standards, many countries allow for firing people for failing to do their job consistently even if they try to use a disability excuse to avoid the consequences of their failure.

Ahh, so you're one of "those people"

I'm not even Hyper Liberal, it's called being a decent human being.

Imagine being such an actual POS that you literally voice your hatred of disabled people openly and blatantly on a public forum

Oh and yes, companies do make accommodations and get sued when they don't, unfortunately for you, outside loony land we have a little thing called GDPR in this part of the world which you can use to ensure a hiring process is entirely transparent and fair, if it isn't. Employer goes to court and loses.

But you keep thinking the backwater way your companies treat human beings is the norm, not the exception.

[Xirean]

Because the whole point of an encounter is for you to be able to understand and be in control of what is happening in order to survive and beat it, if you fail to do that after a number of wipes because of an internal disability that doesnt let you comprehend what is going on then you are simply not able to complete that type of content, its the truth and reality no matter how harsh it sounds.

Addons that trivialize mechanics like timers and mechanic announcing should never be allowed no matter how much a person feels they "need" them, not only they trivialize mechanics, they make people depend on them so much so that they suddenly cant function when the addons are broken because they NEVER UNDERSTOOD the mechanics in the first place.

It is quite simple, if you hire someone to do a job, you expect them to do the job, if they cant do the job because of an internal disability you simply find an able person to do it. This is reality, I care about results, feel free to care about empathy and feelings if you wish but that does not justify giving advantages to some so they feel they are on equal ground.

Why do you think discussing assistance with disability means call outs and timers? I'd like to change the color that aoes are displayed in because they made the aoe the same color as the floor.

[Enjuden]

Well I am not the one who made them disadvantaged nor the people around them caused them to be disadvantaged therefore we dont owe them anything, you cant expect others to put themselves in a disadvantage just so they feel on equal ground.

So basic things like buff bars that benefit everyone are absolutely fine but nobody should be getting advantages like addons announcing mechanics because you "cant focus on everything important"

If you cant be aware of what is happening during the encounter and need your hand held then you shouldnt be doing such content to begin with, you are just not built for such type of game.

People who have not done content should never dictate who can or cannot do something. Going by your logic, I can say that a lot of the hyper casual audience shouldn't even be past the 83 trial and be stuck there, forever, because 'they can't focus on everything important' when the mechanic is A. Brand New, and B. Instantly kills you if you mess it up. Or that you can't clear MSQ and should be locked out if you die. By the way, this mechanic never shows up again outside the EX version.

See how bad this logic is?

[Ralphe2449]

Why do you think discussing assistance with disability means call outs and timers? I'd like to change the color that aoes are displayed in because they made the aoe the same color as the floor.

Like i said in an earlier post I dont mind things that benefit everyone, that would be something that anyone can use and it makes sense. (unless the devs made the floor colour the same on purpose which would be rarely the case.)

And i mentioned call outs because it is something the OP mentioned when they said they feel they need it because they cant focus on the entire encounter, hence my point that if you cant do what the encounter requires due to personal permanent inability you shouldnt be there and should absolutely not be asking to have the encounter's mechanics' trivialized because you feel you should be part of something you are not capable of doing.

People who have not done content should never dictate who can or cannot do something. Going by your logic, I can say that a lot of the hyper casual audience shouldn't even be past the 83 trial and be stuck there, forever, because 'they can't focus on everything important' when the mechanic is A. Brand New, and B. Instantly kills you if you mess it up. Or that you can't clear MSQ and should be locked out if you die. By the way, this mechanic never shows up again outside the EX version.

See how bad this logic is?

You do realize we are talking about permanent inability correct?
Everyone needs some time to see and understand the mechanics, some need more time than others, but if someone is incapable of achieving this in a reasonable amount of time or even ever and demands training wheels, that is a very different case.

[Kaurhz]

Yeah I am sure people love working harder just so a few can play on easymode with training wheels. The people without such addons need to be more aware, more capable and more efficient compared to the person that relies on such addons and never truly learns because they depend on them like training wheels that never go off, so we got a person who works harder and a person who has their hand held permanently in the same group, this is extremely unbalanced.

And as i explained earlier, those addons shouldnt be tolerated in general to avoid the slippery slope of addon dependence and trivialization of mechanics that has happened in WoW.

If you are not capable of being aware of the encounter's mechanics why are you in that encounter? If you really want the reward you can always buy it from a boost or through an FC but dont pretend you are able to beat it on equal ground like everyone else.

yes, and I am sure that people with disabilities and visual impairments that are outside of the realm of their control just enjoy working twice as hard as other people because the development team just isn't adhering to the most trivial of accessibility issues. It is beyond insulting, and more so than those developing the encounter don't even create the equal footing ground that you just seem to love preaching.

Don't be deliberately ignorant and tone-deaf to the blatant issue that plague design in this game from even the most basic of accessibility standpoints. If they don't want people utilizing third-party software in this regard, or in any capacity then they ought to reflect on their own design surrounding these encounters.