FF14 needs more difficulty levels

[Skiros]

The gradient of difficulty in this game is so steep even a mountain goat will struggle to climb it. A big reason why so many players of all skill levels are unsatisfied is because there isn't a good gradient that can keep these players hooked and challenged without being too hard.

The jump from normal duties to Extreme is fairly significant. Even in a decent static, you'd still need 1 to 2 hours of wiping to Endsinger to clear it. It'll be far harder in a PUG. This is massive step up from normal duties which pretty much almost never wipes.

The jump from Savage to Ultimate this tier is also very significant. You already have players complaining that this Ultimate was unreasonably difficult. Those people need to shut up but there is some truth behind that complaint: Savage has become so easy for seasoned veterans that it becomes mindnumbingly boring for them after the clear. In my honest opinion P4S does not adequately prepare anyone for an Ultimate encounter. This particular Ultimate is only adequately prepared for by actually doing on-patch Ultimates, the most recent of which took place a whole 2.5 years ago. This is why so many players who only did Savage and SB Ultimates in ShB (which is seriously only as hard as a Savage level difficulty fight, and this isn't just a meme) are struggling with DSR and even breaking up over it.

There needs to be far, far more content of all kinds of difficulty levels. I would propose an Extreme difficulty alliance raid where players will wipe two or three times each encounter, but give players individual extreme/savage-difficulty mechanics that, when failed, only result in their own deaths. This would be pretty similar to Baldesion Arsenal, where the mechanics may be challenging for newer players but ultimately don't impact the group that much, resulting in a low-stress environment for people to get used to harder mechanics and reacting to those mechanics faster. To save developer time they can start with making the Extreme difficulty raid then shave off mechanics and DPS checks to make the normal difficulty version.

There also needs to be something between Savage and Ultimate, both to satisfy veterans who are only challenged by Ultimate these days, and to help players bridge the gap between Savage and Ultimate. Once again, they can simply make a harder variation of the Savage fight and tune it to the max ilvl for that patch. In many of the Savage fights, they are already starting with difficult mechanics and trimming off mechanics that are too difficult. They simply need to preserve the pre-nerf version and make it Savage+.

This game absolutely does not help players get better and it is a serious shortfall that has been getting worse and worse since Heavensward.

The Creator difficulty gradient was in my opinion the best difficulty gradient the game has been at in its history. Normal content has a significant chance of wiping (Mhach and Dun Scaith in Heavensward) which serve as training for the player to get better. Sophia and Zurvan were no pushovers, but their mechanics are simple enough that I felt that they were only a few steps up above an alliance raid. Finally, A9S-A12S were much simpler than Gordias and Midas, which allow for people who have tackled an extreme trial to go on to Savage pretty comfortably.

[Kranel_San]

I wouldn't say no if criterion dungeons turned out to be FFXIV equivalent of WoW mythic+ dungeons with a difficulty set between extreme and savage or normal and extreme.
But seeing as they have already stated criterion dungeons will have four layers of difficulty, then maybe all the above are possible different layers of difficulty. The first layer being a normal difficulty as an introduction to the new content, with the second being somewhere between normal and extreme, the third being between extreme and savage, and the last layer being a savage difficulty dungeon.
I think that might satisfy players who like running content with fewer people and would prefer killing mobs and a bit of exploration around rather than fighting a boss in an arena.

[angienessyo]

I'd be down for all this. I would also like stuff that's as challenging as Ultimate mechanically but not quite as lengthy. Part of what's so daunting about Ultimate is both the fight length and the massive time investment required to complete it. People that want something brutal but might not be ready for the 150+ hour time investment and 15 minute+ fight length of Ultimate.

[Ralphe2449]

Imo the game needs more challenging solo content.

Casuals are far more likely to try out gradual difficulty solo content than bother to meet and talk with people to get into a static to do raids, that takes times, mental effort and also requires specific times for raid and organize that many do not like being limited to.

Now they could also make a solo savage raid option where the npcs behave very average or slightly below average so victory COMPLETELY depends on your own PERSONAL performance but that is probably a lot of work instead of some solo designed deep dungeon.

[Kleeya]

I wouldn't say no if criterion dungeons turned out to be FFXIV equivalent of WoW mythic+ dungeons with a difficulty set between extreme and savage or normal and extreme.
But seeing as they have already stated criterion dungeons will have four layers of difficulty, then maybe all the above are possible different layers of difficulty. The first layer being a normal difficulty as an introduction to the new content, with the second being somewhere between normal and extreme, the third being between extreme and savage, and the last layer being a savage difficulty dungeon.
I think that might satisfy players who like running content with fewer people and would prefer killing mobs and a bit of exploration around rather than fighting a boss in an arena.

Didn't they say that criterion dungeons difficulty would scale to the number of players, rather than having 4 difficulty settings to choose from ? In my opinion it is very likely, if you go with 4 players, to be the same difficulty as the normal content we have now. With the mobs damage and hp being a bit lower if you go with 3 players, cut in half for 2 players, and reduced by 75% for a solo player. Which is totally different from what you said.

FF14's community has a long history of hyping itself way too much for future content, and ending up being disappointed when things are delivered. Remember how dancer should have been a healer ? Do you see all these people thinking that sanctuary island will be instanced housing, even though we have nearly no infos about it, and that Yoshida already said to keep our expectations low ? If i were you i seriously wouldn't expect criterion dungeons to be some intermediate extreme/savage content. Especially if it is going to be tied to the next relics, which are supposed to be completed by everyone.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Imo the game needs more challenging solo content.

Casuals are far more likely to try out gradual difficulty solo content than bother to meet and talk with people to get into a static to do raids, that takes times, mental effort and also requires specific times for raid and organize that many do not like being limited to.

Now they could also make a solo savage raid option where the npcs behave very average or slightly below average so victory COMPLETELY depends on your own PERSONAL performance but that is probably a lot of work instead of some solo designed deep dungeon.

The issue IMO is that they've dumbed down the MSQ too much. I still feel like it's purpose should include teaching people how to play the game competently so that there isn't such a noticeable gap going into extreme/savage. Single player games do this all the time. It's part of progressing the game. I don't see why an MMORPG should be any different.

[Ralphe2449]

The issue IMO is that they've dumbed down the MSQ too much. I still feel like it's purpose should include teaching people how to play the game competently so that there isn't such a noticeable gap going into extreme/savage. Single player games do this all the time. It's part of progressing the game. I don't see why an MMORPG should be any different.

MSQ understandably gates the story so it needs to be beatable for even the most slow player, that isnt something that can ever be changed, even MSQ duties are designed to be beatable with only 1 good player in the group to give the illusion of difficulty, but extra content could be tuned to have high solo difficulty that increases gradually, extra things like deep dungeons or somekind of challenge that progresses and gives better rewards the higher you go and is of course viable for all classes since from what I understand, some classes are way worse in solo places like PotD/HoH and melee often have to rely on spinning which honestly doesnt feel like a great system but that is because the deep dungeons were created with groups in mind

[TaleraRistain]

I wouldn't say no if criterion dungeons turned out to be FFXIV equivalent of WoW mythic+ dungeons with a difficulty set between extreme and savage or normal and extreme.
But seeing as they have already stated criterion dungeons will have four layers of difficulty, then maybe all the above are possible different layers of difficulty. The first layer being a normal difficulty as an introduction to the new content, with the second being somewhere between normal and extreme, the third being between extreme and savage, and the last layer being a savage difficulty dungeon.
I think that might satisfy players who like running content with fewer people and would prefer killing mobs and a bit of exploration around rather than fighting a boss in an arena.

They never said it would have four layers of difficulty. The only thing we know about it is that difficulty will scale based on number of players. This could be as simple a change as HP of mobs, damage they do, or number of mobs.

[RitsukoSonoda]

MSQ understandably gates the story so it needs to be beatable for even the most slow player, that isnt something that can ever be changed, even MSQ duties are designed to be beatable with only 1 good player in the group to give the illusion of difficulty, but extra content could be tuned to have high solo difficulty that increases gradually, extra things like deep dungeons or somekind of challenge that progresses and gives better rewards the higher you go and is of course viable for all classes since from what I understand, some classes are way worse in solo places like PotD/HoH and melee often have to rely on spinning which honestly doesnt feel like a great system but that is because the deep dungeons were created with groups in mind

Just about every game has a story. Requiring someone to learn how to play the game isn't gating them out of content. Claiming it does is nothing but an enabling phase to excuse laziness. If they don't want to actually play the game then why play it? To me it's essentially punishing everyone else because some people want a visual novel. If their goal is to just watch the main story and all the cutscenes they can do it for free watching online videos without paying retail for the game and a monthly subscription. The actual result that's come about from dumbing that content down and adding things like easy mode to solo duties is basically clearing the way for unprepared players jumping into DF for higher end duties and dragging everyone else down. This resulting in the decline of PUG's on that content and more people adopting the mindset that it can only be done with a static.

[IdowhatIwant]

MSQ understandably gates the story so it needs to be beatable for even the most slow player, that isnt something that can ever be changed, even MSQ duties are designed to be beatable with only 1 good player in the group to give the illusion of difficulty, but extra content could be tuned to have high solo difficulty that increases gradually, extra things like deep dungeons or somekind of challenge that progresses and gives better rewards the higher you go and is of course viable for all classes since from what I understand, some classes are way worse in solo places like PotD/HoH and melee often have to rely on spinning which honestly doesnt feel like a great system but that is because the deep dungeons were created with groups in mind

I don't know man, when I play a video game story, typically the further I get the more the difficulty tends to ramp up, as it puts the skills and things I have learned through played the game to a test. This game keeps a pretty stagnant difficulty, which can be as equal a problem. There is a reason both the players and the devs know what the MSQ doesn't teach players how to play the game, and it's simply because it never has a player test there skills. The MSQ in this game is more a theme park tour, or a visual novel / audio book, than it is a video game.