Confusing Fact about the Races/Spoken

[Strongfat900]

Well, remember that there aren't actual distinctions between the 'spoken' races and 'beast' races, it's 100% arbitrary and fueled by social desire to designate a 'lesser' class of people. In fact, remember that in the First the Amal'jaa equivalents were treated equally and it was the lalafel equivalents that were treated as 'the beast tribe'.

But I do think that it's entirely possible that there were people who, when trying to define this new form for themselves, landed on one that they had some memory of rather than completely out of whole cloth. I mean, if you decide you wanna be a wolfman, and you remember seeing a wolfman before, your resulting image is probably gonna resemble that wolfman you saw.

Btw, could we say that the term, Humanity, can be used for any sapient races of FFXIV including the more beastly looking races like say the Amaljaah? I know that the term is very arbitrary and etc, but since a lot of people here still use the term so I'm wondering about that.

[Cleretic]

Btw, could we say that the term, Humanity, can be used for any sapient races of FFXIV including the more beastly looking races like say the Amaljaah? I know that the term is very arbitrary and etc, but since a lot of people here still use the term so I'm wondering about that.

Oh, absolutely, it applies to them as much as it applies to hyur or roegadyn in the greater sense of the definition. I personally avoid using the term because it's so easily misinterpreted as being more narrow, though.

[MistakeNot]

I'm more inclined to believe the sahagin ARE the "sharks" as in anthropomorphic fish creations, since we hear in Elpis some ancients discussing how some other ancient created the Lupin, implying that the beast races are ancient creations rather than sundered

Very possible. We know that one of the beast races - the Ixal - were created later as a result of Allagan genetic engineering.

[Lyth]

I don't think the term 'Ancient' is necessarily a homogenous one. During our trip to Amaurot, you encounter a debate where the Amaurotians discuss another 'Ancient' civilization across the sea that was being affected by Final Days phenomena, and argue for and against getting involved. It's possible that the Meracydians and people of the New World were descended from other 'Ancient' races that had viewpoints, knowledge systems, and governance that were very distinct from the Amaurotians and their Convocation.

Without further clarification on what the term 'Ancient' actually means, it's a bit like stating that most/all the people currently alive on Earth are descended from people who were previously alive on Earth.

[Strongfat900]

I don't think the term 'Ancient' is necessarily a homogenous one. During our trip to Amaurot, you encounter a debate where the Amaurotians discuss another 'Ancient' civilization across the sea that was being affected by Final Days phenomena, and argue for and against getting involved. It's possible that the Meracydians and people of the New World were descended from other 'Ancient' races that had viewpoints, knowledge systems, and governance that were very distinct from the Amaurotians and their Convocation.

Without further clarification on what the term 'Ancient' actually means, it's a bit like stating that most/all the people currently alive on Earth are descended from people who were previously alive on Earth.

Wut? I mean, aren't we all descendants from our ancestors that existed before us?

[Anvaire]

I personally think the sundering killed most people and hydealyn repopulated sundered Etheirys by using pre-existing concepts and sticking the sundered souls into them. This would also explain why in the first Final Days warped the Ancients Creation magics and the second warped the people (beyond being more susceptible to dyamis) and hydealyn refers to the races as "my children"

[Lyth]

...

Exactly. It's a tautology.

Point is, we're operating on a false equivalence that Amaurot was the only 'Ancient' civilization of its time, when there is already quest dialogue to suggest the contrary. It's possible that all of the native (i.e. excluding alien civilizations like the First Brood and Omicrons) sapient life forms arose from Amaurot, which would be pretty boring. But we don't know that for a fact, because the world's a big place and we haven't seen what's 'across the pond', as it were.

[sidurgu-12]

sapient life forms arose from Amaurot, which would be pretty boring

this is why im desperatly hoping for the 12 not to be connected to them.

[Strongfat900]

Exactly. It's a tautology.

Point is, we're operating on a false equivalence that Amaurot was the only 'Ancient' civilization of its time, when there is already quest dialogue to suggest the contrary. It's possible that all of the native (i.e. excluding alien civilizations like the First Brood and Omicrons) sapient life forms arose from Amaurot, which would be pretty boring. But we don't know that for a fact, because the world's a big place and we haven't seen what's 'across the pond', as it were.

Well, yeah. It's likely that that ancients were pretty diverse too but were closely related nonetheless.

[KageTokage]

Given that all of the races (Save for the Hyur) are believed to have a homeland that they've dwelled in since antiquity, perhaps they all originated from different Ancient civilizations and the people of Amaurot accounted for only one of them.