Simplify 1-2-3 combos and reduce button bloat

[Ransu]

show us how you manage 30 hotkeys and move around at the same time with one hand, i am curious.

Not even in ARR we had only 2 keys. We already have 3 full hotbars or almost (depending on the job), you're sayng consolidating the 1-2-3 combo into 1 button means suddenly you don't use the other 20+ skills? Unless right now you only use the 1-2-3 combo, in which case I'd worry more about learning to play.

Most of the oGCD skills are burned on your opener. You spend the large majority of every encounter doing your main combos pressing the occasional oGCD skill. Its not a matter of "complicated" or not. It simply comes down to I'd rather press "1,2,3" than 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2.

Also, we had more skills in ARR/HW than we do now. The removal/redesign of "shared" skills from classes among other things have significantly reduced how many skills we have. I used to have nearly 5 bars full of stuff in HW. Now I'm down to two and half and its perfectly fine.

[Duskane]

now do it on this

[Shurrikhan]

Also, we had more skills in ARR/HW than we do now.

This is blatant misinformation. HW had the same number of skills, typically, as now. ARR had fewer.

Here's the ARR WHM kit, for instance:

• Stone (unused outside of T5)
• Stone II
• Aero
• Aero II
• Holy
• Regen
• Cure
• Cure II
• Cure III
• Medica
• Medica II
• Benediction
• Raise
• Shroud of Saints
• Divine Seal
• Presence of Mind
• Protect (literal bloat)
• Cleric Stance
• Stoneskin
• Repose
  
  
• Swiftcast
• Virus (and it granted a 70s immunity debuff after usage back then)
• Eye for an Eye
• Blizzard II (useful only in Garuda Ex, though that was usually covered instead by Shadowbind, and in certain weird T4 prog strats)
• Surecast (which then lasted only 3s and was cancelled by completing any cast and didn't yet grant KB immunity)

25 abilities. We currently have... 30 abilities (24 native, not counting any upgrades, plus 6 Role Actions).

Heavensward added Assize, Asylum, Tetra, and Aero III (Stone III just replaced Stone II) for 29.

The removal/redesign of "shared" skills from classes among other things have significantly reduced how many skills we have.

You could only take 5 of them. Only casters have so few Role Actions.

I used to have nearly 5 bars full of stuff in HW.

The only way for you to have "5 bars full of stuff in HW" was for you to have crammed it up chalk full of macros, likely for job/gear swapping. Even AST, with Sprint, potion, and a macro each for Undraw and Royal Road cancel, fit on 3 bars (<36 skills) at that time.

[Ransu]

now do it on this

Players clear savage and ultimate tier content all the time on controller. Seems like a you problem to me.

You have 8 pages for 128 total skills with multiple different shortcut methods to quickly use the other pages. I personally prefer m/kb, but a controller is hardly a handicap.

snip

I don't really care about WHM because they have always been in a weird state and healers in general have always had smaller kits, but good job cherry picking I guess? The majority of the DPS and Tanks had more fleshed out kits back then.

My old main DRG for example lost the following after HW;

Heavy Thrust
Phlebotmozie
Impulse Drive
Ring of Thorns
Blood for Blood
Invigorate (TP restore so I'm whatever about this one)
Keen Flurry
Power Surge (merged into dissembowel as a generic 10% buff instead of its own skill that buffed jump damage)
Goad (TP restore for teammates)
Internal release (cross class skill)
Foresight (cross class)
Mercy Stroke (cross class)
Mantra (before it was mnk only)
Featherfoot and haymaker (not really worth taking, but nice to have when solo)

Blood of the dragon is now a talent and mirage dive is now merged into high jump....so outside of the new aoe combo, drg hasn't really gained anything and has lost a ton.

[Tlamila]

Yes please, this game has been having a hge bloat for years and it only gets worse.
See Paladin, since the bar was already full, they added new actions to the very same button, instead of requiring new ones, and it works just fine.
Honestly, having to press 1-2-3 instead of 1-1-1 doens't make the game harder in any form or shape nor more engaging. It's just hoarder's clutter.

[Ransu]

Amazing how much you can type and still be incorrect lol.

[MilkieTea]

Rather than consolidate the 1-2-3 (which is there to allow for player mistakes), can we focus on consolidating redundant buttons? Leylines/Between-the-leylines, as an example. You can *never* use Between the Leylines unless you've set your leylines down and have the buff active, and you cannot use Leylines again until the CD for it is over.

[Lustre]

This is blatant misinformation. HW had the same number of skills, typically, as now. ARR had fewer.

Here's the ARR WHM kit, for instance:

• Stone (unused outside of T5)
• Stone II
• Aero
• Aero II
• Holy
• Regen
• Cure
• Cure II
• Cure III
• Medica
• Medica II
• Benediction
• Raise
• Shroud of Saints
• Divine Seal
• Presence of Mind
• Protect (literal bloat)
• Cleric Stance
• Stoneskin
• Repose
  
  
• Swiftcast
• Virus (and it granted a 70s immunity debuff after usage back then)
• Eye for an Eye
• Blizzard II (useful only in Garuda Ex, though that was usually covered instead by Shadowbind, and in certain weird T4 prog strats)
• Surecast (which then lasted only 3s and was cancelled by completing any cast and didn't yet grant KB immunity)

25 abilities. We currently have... 30 abilities (24 native, not counting any upgrades, plus 6 Role Actions).

Heavensward added Assize, Asylum, Tetra, and Aero III (Stone III just replaced Stone II) for 29.



You could only take 5 of them. Only casters have so few Role Actions.


The only way for you to have "5 bars full of stuff in HW" was for you to have crammed it up chalk full of macros, likely for job/gear swapping. Even AST, with Sprint, potion, and a macro each for Undraw and Royal Road cancel, fit on 3 bars (<36 skills) at that time.

"Misinformation" is such a loaded term to use in regards to discussion of amount of buttons in an MMO it actually made me cringe irl

[Shurrikhan]

"Misinformation" is such a loaded term to use in regards to discussion of amount of buttons in an MMO it actually made me cringe irl

When someone says A was more than B, despite it having been literally less, in a roundabout attempt to shut down a thread's discussion through errant nostalgic drivel, the term seems apt.

It uses errors the poster could have easily checked in order in an attempt to prop up an argument, relying on others' ignorance to try to sell it. That is, yeah, misinformation.