Keep our skills when Level syncing in dungeons

[RaijinThunder]

I would absolutely love to see this. It's especially frustrating when you've trying to learn a new job in a more active environment. I want to be doing actual dungeons, trials, 24 mans, etc. but I don't want to just be restricted to the 2 or 3 things I might be "on level" for at that particular moment. While I realize scaling would be an issue I'd honestly be perfectly fine getting hit with some sort of "anti-echo" debuff to force me in line with the conternt.. I don't care about power level, make me relatively weaker than the lower level people I may be grouped with if you have to, I just want to have my full tool kit available.

Exactly someone else understands. Alot of classes have poop rotations at lower levels sage for example is crap so is reaper almost unplayable

[RaijinThunder]

And once again people do not know the repercussions of asking for this.

other MMO's do the same thing man

[Gullis]

Where is the logic in this? They do the same scaling with low-level fates. What you're describing is having the same experience in the level 90 dungeons as the lower level dungeons but you'd have your full rotation and not just 3 buttons

Pretty sure fate scaling works the same as dungeons tho?. I lose my entire kit by going into a ARR fate for example

Also can you please try to adress some of the stuff mentioned like Tank invulns, party buffs and healer OGCDs, how do you scale down utility/buff abilities to be on par with not having them at all?
people advocating for this seems to only think about damage, and forget everything else exists.

[RaijinThunder]

Go do some real end game content to use the "fun part reaching max level" then, instead of continuously doing and complaining about years old content?

I need tomes bro wtf do are you even saying??

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

But we can both agree majority of classes rotations are poop at lower levels yes?

Yes, but plainly scaling down the potencies to keep full rotations and character status simply won't suffice; it will 100% break the game. This has been refuted so many many many many many times in past threads coupled with their hard calculations. In this thread, Mikey_R already presented you a glimpse to that and even that is already nightmare to deal with. Now do that to all 19 jobs.

The best(?) they could probably do is to introduce a few or some buttons at lower level, new, returned, or existing. DRK gets a glimpse of this treatment by having their AoE finisher Stalwart Soul moved from lv72 to lv40. RDM have their Engagement moved from lv72 to lv40. But hey, they can still do more, like:

1. Have NIN learn their Armor Crush or Huraijin learn in ARR lv range, because having to use Huton in mid combat is horrible.
2. Have WHM relearn their good old Fluid Aura as baby Assize, Stoneskin as baby Divine Benison, Divine Seal as baby Temperance, all of these in ARR lv range.
3. Have DRG learn their first AoE Doom Spike at lv15 instead of lv41 (!!!)
4. Or basically all melees should at least receive their first AoE attack at lv15.
5. This is a bit wild: sync toolkits based on expansions. I.e. if you get Sohm Al, you will have access to all buttons up to lv60. If you get Shisui, all buttons up to lv70 will be useable. I don't think this will work on ARR expansion dungeon but I'll just put it here.

Full toolkits? Sorry, no. Plenty of us already presented you the reasons behind this limitation. No offense (for real), but please read them thoroughly before replying. Because based on your last chain of posts after being absent from first page, you seem to be reading the replies one at a time to catch up the missed posts and answers them as you read them.

Also this:

Also can you please try to adress some of the stuff mentioned like Tank invulns, party buffs and healer OGCDs, how do you scale down utility/buff abilities to be on par with not having them at all? People advocating for this seems to only think about damage, and forget everything else exists.

EDIT: Thank you Mesarthim for correcting me on Engagement level.

[RaijinThunder]

Yes, but plainly scaling down the potencies to keep full rotations and character status simply won't suffice; it will 100% break the game. This has been refuted so many many many many many times in past threads coupled with their hard calculations. In this thread, Mikey_R already presented you a glimpse to that and even that is already nightmare to deal with. Now do that to all 19 jobs.

The best(?) they could probably do is to introduce a few or some buttons at lower level, new, returned, or existing. DRK gets a glimpse of this treatment by having their AoE finisher Stalwart Soul moved from lv72 to lv40. RDM have their Engagement moved from lv76 to lv40. But hey, they can still do more, like:

1. Have NIN learn their Armor Crush or Huraijin learn in ARR lv range, because having to use Huton in mid combat is horrible.
2. Have WHM relearn their good old Fluid Aura as baby Assize, Stoneskin as baby Divine Benison, Divine Seal as baby Temperance, all of these in ARR lv range.
3. Have DRG learn their first AoE Doom Spike at lv15 instead of lv41 (!!!)
4. Or basically all melees should at least receive their first AoE attack at lv15.
5. This is a bit wild: sync toolkits based on expansions. I.e. if you get Sohm Al, you will have access to all buttons up to lv60. If you get Shisui, all buttons up to lv70 will be useable. I don't think this will work on ARR expansion dungeon but I'll just put it here.

Full toolkits? Sorry, no. Plenty of us already presented you with the reasons behind this limitation. No offense (for real), but please read them thoroughly before replying. Because based on your last chain of posts after being absent from the first page, you seem to be reading the replies one at a time to catch up on the missed posts and answer them as you read them.

Also this:

Then we change the roulette system entirely. At level 90 extreme and hard versions for all dungeons will be unlocked for tome farming. NPC's will help fill in for newer players if a role can't be found up to the max level. So now there will be normal roulettes hard roulette and extreme roulettes. Bosses in dungeons will be given additional mechanics for each difficulty just like they do it in the trails

[Mikey_R]

Then we change the roulette system entirely. At level 90 extreme and hard versions for all dungeons will be unlocked for tome farming. NPC's will help fill in for newer players if a role can't be found up to the max level. So now there will be normal roulettes hard roulette and extreme roulettes. Bosses in dungeons will be given additional mechanics for each difficulty just like they do it in the trails

So you want the dev team to spend a ton of time remaking EVERY dungeon to bring them up to level 90 standards. If they were to do this, we have no new content for a long time or, if they done it incrementally, it would take a long time and alot of resources. It is just a silly suggestion.

All you have said is you want tomes, however, there are so many different ways to get tomes, you can avoid levelling roulette altogether and not even encounter the lower levels at all. It is your choice to do this content, knowing what the consequences are.

This does not mean, however, low levels have to stay bland. There is no reason low levels cannot be reworked to potentially introduce mechanics early, even if it is just a weaker version, like Monk and Steal Peak -> The Forbidden Chakra. Giving all jobs some sort of AoE by level 15 (except maybe Healers). They already fixed one of my biggest issues with DRK in that they moved Stalwart Soul from level 72 to level 40, bringing it in par with the other tanks. Raidwide mitigation can be moved to be available at about the same level for all tanks etc.

Whether this happens or not is a different matter, it seems to be a theme with jobs they rework, Summoner has the same basic rotation at low levels as it does at higher levels after all, however it is the better solution to the low level problem than allowing everything at all times.

[Mesarthim]

RDM have their Engagement moved from lv76 to lv40.

Minor correction: Engagement was level 72, the 76 skill is Reprise. Your point still stands though.

[RaijinThunder]

So you want the dev team to spend a ton of time remaking EVERY dungeon to bring them up to level 90 standards. If they were to do this, we have no new content for a long time or, if they done it incrementally, it would take a long time and alot of resources. It is just a silly suggestion.

All you have said is you want tomes, however, there are so many different ways to get tomes, you can avoid leveling roulette altogether and not even encounter the lower levels at all. It is your choice to do this content, knowing what the consequences are.

This does not mean, however, low levels have to stay bland. There is no reason low levels cannot be reworked to potentially introduce mechanics early, even if it is just a weaker version, like Monk and Steal Peak -> The Forbidden Chakra. Giving all jobs some sort of AoE by level 15 (except maybe Healers). They already fixed one of my biggest issues with DRK in that they moved Stalwart Soul from level 72 to level 40, bringing it in par with the other tanks. Raidwide mitigation can be moved to be available at about the same level for all tanks etc.

Whether this happens or not is a different matter, it seems to be a theme with jobs they rework, Summoner has the same basic rotation at low levels as it does at higher levels after all, however it is the better solution to the low level problem than allowing everything at all times.

First off it doesn't need to be every single dungeon just the main ones for each story, and they already have extreme and hard trials why would it be an issue to do the same for dungeons? You need to explain this to me. Why only have hard and extreme modes for trails only? If we are going to be replaying old content to get tomes, materials,etc then something needs to be added for replayability
Secondly, I am not just referring to leveling roulette I'm talking about ALL roulettes. I do not mind paying with low levels this suggestion has nothing to do with them I'm only addressing this comment: "Also can you please try to address some of the stuff mentioned like Tank invulns, party buffs, and healer OGCDs, how do you scale down utility/buff abilities to be on par with not having them at all? People advocating for this seem to only think about damage, and forget everything else exists."
Lastly, I agree with you on this: "This does not mean, however, low levels have to stay bland. There is no reason low levels cannot be reworked to potentially introduce mechanics early, even if it is just a weaker version" If they can add more skills to earlier levels so classes can be played more fluently and not feel so lackluster then that is something I can get behind.
Other MMO's have this scaling system already it doesn't make sense that ff14 doesn't.

[KariTheFox]

Then we change the roulette system entirely. At level 90 extreme and hard versions for all dungeons will be unlocked for tome farming. NPC's will help fill in for newer players if a role can't be found up to the max level. So now there will be normal roulettes hard roulette and extreme roulettes. Bosses in dungeons will be given additional mechanics for each difficulty just like they do it in the trails

Ignoring the huge waste of developer time and resources this would be, this would completely go against the point of the leveling roulette system - which is to populate low level dungeons with both new AND more experienced players. Completely segregating sprouts from the max level player pool is not what SE wants.

At some point you just have to accept that leveling roulette and other level-sync content is not for you - it's to give other sprouts who want to play with other players enough of a player pool to do so.