6.1: Deep reflection to the Devs

**IdowhatIwant** · 05-09-2022 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

And this is where the solution is extremely simple yet players make it hard.
Give solo players a gradual difficulty solo designed deep dungeon where at the near max floors you get savage tomes and unique titles or anything similar really.

It's actually not that simple, because if the solo version is any easier than savage, than everyone would just do that vs the group content to get the gear.
It's effectively the way you would kill the little bit of group content this game actually has.

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

The illusion of difficulty in high end group content was just explained on my previous post.
Though dont think you are gonna want to understand that anyway xd

Again, even if it is an illusion of difficulty, if the solo content gives the same rewards, and is viewed easier for any reason whether it actually is or is not. It would effectively kill the little group content the game actually has.

**Ralphe2449** · 05-09-2022 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

It's actually not that simple, because if the solo version is any easier than savage, than everyone would just do that vs the group content to get the gear.
It's effectively the way you would kill the little bit of group content this game actually has.

The illusion of difficulty in high end group content was just explained on my previous post.
Though dont think you are gonna want to understand that anyway xd

**Shurrikhan** · 05-09-2022 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

The illusion of difficulty in high end group content was just explained on my previous post.

You explained that solo play removes the difficulty of coordination, making the content easier.

No part of that explains away the fact that then, yes, the solo content (unless remade/retuned to have a more difficult baseline) would be easier and therefore, if given the same rewards as group content, would greatly disincentivize group content, likely to the point of starving it of participation.

Also...

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Only reason i bother with high end group content these day is because i am FORCED TO because of the gear rewards, otherwise I would only touch raids for the occasional fun, not something i would do often.

This makes no damn sense. There is zero need for raid gear in anything but still more difficult content than what you get it from. If you don't like raiding, then why would you raid just to get stuff you'd never need outside of... Savage raiding? If what you want to do is purely the least gear-relevant stuff anyways, then you're going into content you are already soured to just to fawn over an irrelevant ilvl value.

That's like insisting on having a mansion... just so you could sleep in a tent on its driveway.

**Deveryn** · 05-09-2022 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ransu

Its not just an "extra step." It gave us some form of resource management outside of spamming shinten and it flowed well into our iajutsus. Also sam mains are not just upset over kaiten. Its the auto crits as well that has essentially removed the fun out of getting big hits since the auto crits now hit like wet noodles. Sorry that we want sam to be slightly complex....

SAM has two extra combinations and more buttons to spend gauge on. OK. The most potent attacks needed an extra skill to charge up? That goes against the concept of SAM which is no wasted motion. They have slain the evil inside. Be at peace.

**Deveryn** · 05-09-2022 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

This is such a contradiction of the meaning of the term though. Mmo means massive multiplayer online. Why would you come to a multiplayer online game and want to play alone? That’s like going to a pizza place and ordering a taco lol. Single player rpg’s exists, many of them. Those are available but i’ll never understand people who complain or come into the game wanting it to be a solo experience. It’s an MMO. Not just an rpg.

Everyone gets so hung up on the MM part, even the SP folks they're trying to entice. The early 2000s called and want their gripe back.

Do you like to shame people for eating at restaurants alone as well? It's actually quite nice to be able to just sit there and enjoy your meal with no distractions. This isn't all that different. For all intents and purposes, I've been playing this game alone even before all this duty support stuff. I've done it for years. I can get so much done and never have to get into any real conversations with people and just enjoy the game. I also want to get comfortable with the game before I try anything that might require more time with people. What I do has little to no bearing on you or most people. The same goes in the reverse. What's the actual harm in letting single-player fans in the game? Given the chance, I think many might consider dipping their toes into the multiplayer side of things, especially while running around this world.

**Ralphe2449** · 05-09-2022 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You explained that solo play removes the difficulty of coordination, making the content easier.

Then I guess if you and another car agree who goes first but the other guy screws up and crashes onto you aka "something you are not control of" you just call that "higher difficulty" xD?

Reality is, you didnt fail coordination, the other person did which once again is something out of your own control.

Difficulty exist in relation to things you can control, not things you are not in control.

If a meteor crashes next to my home I wont be calling that higher difficulty

**hagare** · 05-09-2022 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Deveryn

Everyone gets so hung up on the MM part, even the SP folks they're trying to entice. The early 2000s called and want their gripe back.

Do you like to shame people for eating at restaurants alone as well? It's actually quite nice to be able to just sit there and enjoy your meal with no distractions. This isn't all that different. For all intents and purposes, I've been playing this game alone even before all this duty support stuff. I've done it for years. I can get so much done and never have to get into any real conversations with people and just enjoy the game. I also want to get comfortable with the game before I try anything that might require more time with people. What I do has little to no bearing on you or most people. The same goes in the reverse. What's the actual harm in letting single-player fans in the game? Given the chance, I think many might consider dipping their toes into the multiplayer side of things, especially while running around this world.

hey!
I watch movies alone xD
I can actually focus that way

**KizuyaKatogami** · 05-09-2022 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Deveryn

Everyone gets so hung up on the MM part, even the SP folks they're trying to entice. The early 2000s called and want their gripe back.

Do you like to shame people for eating at restaurants alone as well? It's actually quite nice to be able to just sit there and enjoy your meal with no distractions. This isn't all that different. For all intents and purposes, I've been playing this game alone even before all this duty support stuff. I've done it for years. I can get so much done and never have to get into any real conversations with people and just enjoy the game. I also want to get comfortable with the game before I try anything that might require more time with people. What I do has little to no bearing on you or most people. The same goes in the reverse. What's the actual harm in letting single-player fans in the game? Given the chance, I think many might consider dipping their toes into the multiplayer side of things, especially while running around this world.

There’s a difference between a restaurant and an mmo. Restaurants typically aren’t advertised as a group thing at least not any i’ve gone to. The problem with the single player pushing is that it affects the multiplayer content. We saw this with the second ex trial this expansion where to make it fitted for trusts, they had to simplify many of the mechanics. There’s also the problem of resource cost. The resources put towards the single player pushing affects the time and resources that could be giving other content. It’s not free, and it affects everyone.

**Shurrikhan** · 05-09-2022 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

Then I guess if you and another car agree who goes first but the other guy screws up and crashes onto you aka "something you are not control of" you just call that "higher difficulty" xD?

If a meteor crashes next to my home I wont be calling that higher difficulty

Except you absolutely have a degree of control in coordination. Working with others does not somehow strip you of agency. There are absolutely ways to coordinate more effectively, or less.

There are performance gaps from familiarity involved (i.e., knowledge-gap in) in telegraphing and reading intent, for instance.

**Ralphe2449** · 05-09-2022 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Except you absolutely have a degree of control in coordination. Working with others does not somehow strip you of agency. There are absolutely ways to coordinate more effectively, or less.

Yet no matter how much you talk about coordination in advance, if they fail to do the mechanic at the right moment like everyone else you wipe and you have no control over that because that is another person's failure.

Thus you have no control over what matters, the moment where the individual fails to do the mechanic as that is a PERSONAL FAILURE.

What you have control over is your own performance and your personal mechanics, hence that is what matters, if you are doing well on those you should be clearing the boss and receiving your reward alas, the illusion of difficulty that comes from other players failing has resulted in people thinking high end group content is something incredibly hard while solo content even when tuned to be difficult is quite easy because there's no illusion of difficulty since other people's failures dont exist.

Thread: 6.1: Deep reflection to the Devs

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