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  1. #1
    Player
    RyuuZero's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    472
    Character
    Ryu Kusanagi
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Martynek View Post
    Shoha II (Upgrade Shoha to Shoha II at the relevant level, make it a single target ability with aoe falloff like Paladin's Expiacion)
    Hissatsu: Guren (Give Senei aoe falloff, same concept)
    Tsubame-gaeshi's keybind (Iaijutsu automatically changes to Tsubame-Gaeshi when it would be possible to cast a Kaeshi Iaijutsu)
    Ogi Namikiri's keybind (Ikishoten changes to Ogi Namikiri/Kaeshi: Namikiri after use, as appropriate)

    And that's just stuff that could be harmlessly and effortlessly cut.
    I think I'm going to explode
    Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations! the PLD Skill change is something that I would explain with Tank Gameplay dumbing down even further because no one cares and the new skill looks flashy or Tank do not have to think about AoE and Single Target Situation, just get the Enmity!
    same with Senei and Guren, Senei is for Single Target, Guren is for AoE.. my only idea for Skills like that to change would be to drop resource requirement for longer cool down skills, like Senei, Guren, Bunshin, ect. since those Skills can be used once ever 2minutes anyway.
    Your Tsubamegaeshi Idea is something I can see, though there they should change it that Kaeshi Higanbana works alongside Higanbana and potency adjustments
    and about Ogi Namikiri, I wrote a Macro that does just that and works just fine:

    /macroicon "Ikishoten"
    /ac "Ikishoten"
    /ac "Ogi Namikiri"

    just copy&paste this into your macros, and press the button 3times in combat, gg.. and please before you come at me with "but it's a Macro, I do not want this", fine but seriously try that macro first before judging^^
    I assume we get a Single Target Ogi with lvl92, in 7.0 anyway because Ogi Namikiri is AoE

    There is alot of disagreement among us Samurai, but in One Thing, we must be clear, they have to Bring Back Kaiten!
    (0)
    Last edited by RyuuZero; 05-23-2022 at 11:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Martynek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Bozja
    Posts
    107
    Character
    Martyn Dracht
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RyuuZero View Post
    I think I'm going to explode
    Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations! the PLD Skill change is something that I would explain with Tank Gameplay dumbing down even further because no one cares and the new skill looks flashy or Tank do not have to think about AoE and Single Target Situation, just get the Enmity!
    same with Senei and Guren, Senei is for Single Target, Guren is for AoE.. my only idea for Skills like that to change would be to drop resource requirement for longer cool down skills, like Senei, Guren, Bunshin, ect. since those Skills can be used once ever 2minutes anyway.

    and about Ogi Namikiri, I wrote a Macro that does just that and works just fine:

    /macroicon "Ikishoten"
    /ac "Ikishoten"
    /ac "Ogi Namikiri"

    just copy&paste this into your macros, and press the button 3times in combat, gg.. and please before you come at me with "but it's a Macro, I do not want this", fine but seriously try that macro first before judging^^
    I don't think I can respect your stance on this if you're using macros for core rotation abilities.
    You also don't seem to understand that tank damage matters with your "Just get the enmity!" stance, despite being about 2/3 as strong as a DPS assuming equal skill - they absolutely contribute to make or break DPS checks.

    Also, I don't think we're getting a single target Ogi. It's not an aoe exactly, but rather a single target ability with falloff.
    (3)
    Last edited by Martynek; 05-24-2022 at 02:48 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    RyuuZero's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    472
    Character
    Ryu Kusanagi
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Martynek View Post
    I don't think I can respect your stance on this if you're using macros for core rotation abilities.
    You also don't seem to understand that tank damage matters with your "Just get the enmity!" stance, despite being about 2/3 as strong as a DPS assuming equal skill - they absolutely contribute to make or break DPS checks.

    Also, I don't think we're getting a single target Ogi. It's not an aoe exactly, but rather a single target ability with falloff.
    I miss Stance Dancing to be honest.. and the changes the Devs brought to Tanks and Healers in Shadowbringers I assume was made to focus them to their roles, now do I agree with it(?), not entirely but wiping on esuna-ble Debuffs in a 24men raid had to be address (kind of like SE still didn't add B and C Spawn Points for the Atomos Part in CT) but Enmity is the Tank's Main Duty to keep track of. About the macro.. have you tried it? ^^ all I did is to put Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri on One Button, the stuff that soo many Samurai ask for and I just did that with the Tools that the Game provides itself.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Martynek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Bozja
    Posts
    107
    Character
    Martyn Dracht
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RyuuZero View Post
    it also isn't about the abilities, the resources can be multipurpose, you can spend Kenki on AoE or Single Target, you can spend your meditation on AoE and Single Target
    When the existence of those abilities costs precious hotbar real estate for a non-choice (it's a simple flowchart - Three or more enemies? Press the AoE version), then it's better to move the illusion of depth into other abilities that can provide genuine gameplay depth.
    In the case of your GCD rotation, I don't think that should ever be merged. AoE rotations and single target rotations flow differently. In the case of fire-and-forget cooldowns, separating them into single target and AoE versions takes up needless space. There's a reason most damaging level 90 skills have falloff AoE damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyuuZero View Post
    I miss Stance Dancing to be honest.. and the changes the Devs brought to Tanks and Healers in Shadowbringers I assume was made to focus them to their roles
    I don't think there's solid evidence either way, but I would argue that it was instead done to disincentivize focusing on damage to the detriment of performing your role - or the opposite. With more oGCD healing tools for healers, adjusted fight damage timelines that reduce reliance on GCD heals, and no mitigation tools that come at the cost of damage (or vice versa), you can optimise your damage output without making the group suffer as a result, and optimise your mitigation/healing usage without costing you damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by RyuuZero View Post
    About the macro.. have you tried it? ^^ all I did is to put Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri on One Button, the stuff that soo many Samurai ask for and I just did that with the Tools that the Game provides itself.
    Macros do not work as normal abilities do. They do not respect your global cooldown, always requiring a minimum of 2.5 seconds to reset, and do not respect the action queue, meaning you have to press the button exactly as the action queue clears or you miss weaving time/stagger your GCD (even further in the case of macroed GCDs, since again, they reset after 2.5s instead of your skill/spell speed-adjusted GCD timer). It might feel "comfortable" to use at first if you don't realise these things but unfortunately the macro system in this game is functionally unusable for optimised gameplay.
    (3)
    Last edited by Martynek; 05-24-2022 at 06:23 AM. Reason: Further elaboration, correcting errors

  5. #5
    Player
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    959
    Quote Originally Posted by RyuuZero View Post
    and the changes the Devs brought to Tanks and Healers in Shadowbringers I assume was made to focus them to their roles, now do I agree with it(?), not entirely but wiping on esuna-ble Debuffs in a 24men raid had to be address (kind of like SE still didn't add B and C Spawn Points for the Atomos Part in CT)
    Yeah I mean that's why they took away Selene, who had an entire AoE Esuna ability, right? That's definitely addressing wiping on esuna-able debuffs in raids, just remove something that makes it easier for players to manage and then do nothing else about that!

    I'm not going to derail this thread complaining about healers, but lets not pretend that they had a grand vision in mind with what they did to healers, just as they DO NOT have a grand idea in mind with what they're doing with SAM. They want things to be easier for themselves to balance, that's it. They do not care about how jobs play, your fun with the job, or the time you put into your job. That's why they got rid of Kaiten and not the bloat they added this expac. They're chasing the white rabbit of making sure everything is easy to manage, and it's coming at the cost of making anything and everything in the game feel bland, boring and repetitive to play - except Yoshi's precious golden child BLM.
    (13)

  6. #6
    Player
    Eorzean_username's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    567
    Character
    Azephia Dawn
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RyuuZero View Post
    I think I'm going to explode
    Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations!
    do you also think that Dragoon should have Geirskogul II, Nastrond II, Dragonfire Dive II, and Stardiver II?
    (1)