SAM players are quitting

[YukiB]

WHM has every right to feel the way they do given they have no utility, yet they aren't quitting/uninstalling

The ones that were going to quit already did.

DRK forever hate that they lost all their skill ceiling, yet they haven't quit/uninstalled

The ones that were going to quit already did.

SMNs continue to fight for their DoTs back, not quitting/uninstalling

The ones that were going to quit already did.

See the pattern? You're not hearing threats to quit because the changes happened months ago, and anyone upset enough to quit already did. That's what SAM discussions might look like after 6.2; the ones upset enough to not play the job but willing to play other jobs will keep complaining just like with these 3, and the ones upset enough to quit will have quit. Maybe come back then.

Oh and I was there when Stoneskin went away, it sucked but we didn't lose sleep over it, yes I was a WHM back then.

Congratulations for sticking it out!

And it's *not* providing feedback telling people you're going to Quit/Uninstall if they don't revert a change.

That is a demand with a threat and that's the kind of thing the Devs will outright ignore.

It absolutely is feedback. In fact, it's the only feedback the developers are likely to listen to. They don't actually care about how the job plays, but they do care about retaining players.

Give them feedback they can get their teeth into, how much has the change affected SAMs playstyle? Is it just numbers or the entire flow? Can you provide hard metric evidence?

We do that and we continue to do that. There's room on the forum for both types of threads.

Oh and "SAM wasn't in the world first team" isn't a metric, neither was RPR because those jobs are not suited to short windows where burst is king, they're suited to longer windows of consistent damage so Ultimate is not somewhere they're comfortable, why we saw a lot of MNK/NIN MNK/DRG NIN/DRG, because they are good in those short windows. BLM hasn't performed well in the Ultimate either for much the same reason.

SAM is all about burst damage. That's why they nerfed Midare/Ogi damage and did the crit thing, because SAM did arguably too much of their damage in bursts and were too dependent on that burst critting.

A lack of burst damage is not why SAM was not taken for the Ultimate. It was mostly due to the lack of synergy with other jobs, because three of the most common raid buffs no longer benefit our burst damage.

I can get behind good feedback, I can support it and will.

Great! Welcome to the club.

I won't support entire threads of nothing but "SAM sux now, I uninstall or else and anyone that finds this annoying is wrong and bad"

Then don't read them or post in them.

Because that's not feedback

Yes it is.

That's whining.

Here I will defer to your expertise.

[Karious]

Well my thinking on that is similar to Enochan the meter builds while you have resources and they could put the animation back in as a tell that your next weaponskill has the Kaiten weaponskill potency buff

So it would become a Baked in passive kenki meter builder and at full your next weaponskill gets buffed

I'd rather have a choice in when I get to use Kaiten, rather than it auto applying when I don't want.

[Kabooa]

I'd rather have a choice in when I get to use Kaiten, rather than it auto applying when I don't want.

You don't have a choice in when you use Kaiten.

[JanVanding]

I'd rather have a choice in when I get to use Kaiten, rather than it auto applying when I don't want.

You got an illusion of choice. Diverging from an optimal rotation is choosing to do suboptimal dps.

While yes, this would enforce the optimal rotation, you were pretty much in that boat anyway if you do high end content so it would just be giving back what you lost and sticking to their "reduced button bloat" mantra.

[YukiB]

You don't have a choice in when you use Kaiten.

Yes you do. You have to actively press the button. Yes, it's optimal to use it before iaijutsu, but that doesn't mean you have to.

That's like saying you don't have a choice on when to enter Life of the Dragon on DRG, just because it's optimal to delay it for raid buffs.

You got an illusion of choice. Diverging from an optimal rotation is choosing to do suboptimal dps.

While yes, this would enforce the optimal rotation, you were pretty much in that boat anyway if you do high end content so it would just be giving back what you lost and sticking to their "reduced button bloat" mantra.

Man, I'm getting so good at reading your modus operandi that I'm replying to you before I even see your post!

[JanVanding]

Yes you do. You have to actively press the button. Yes, it's optimal to use it before iaijutsu, but that doesn't mean you have to.

That's like saying you don't have a choice on when to enter Life of the Dragon on DRG, just because it's optimal to delay it for raid buffs.



Man, I'm getting so good at reading your modus operandi that I'm replying to you before I even see your post!

Know what happens to people that Grey dps constantly?

The group disbands and reforms without them. So yes it's very much an illusion of choice.

In a High end environment, if you're not beating Enrage (and let's be honest it does happen) the dps will be checked, if they see the SAM or the DRG right down the list next to the WHM

That group 100% will disband and reform without them.

They don't call them out, they don't kick up a fuss, they just remove the problem quietly.

[YukiB]

Know what happens to people that Grey dps constantly?

The group disbands and reforms without them. So yes it's very much an illusion of choice.

In a High end environment, if you're not beating Enrage (and let's be honest it does happen) the dps will be checked, if they see the SAM or the DRG right down the list next to the WHM

That group 100% will disband and reform without them.

They don't call them out, they don't kick up a fuss, they just remove the problem quietly.

You don't grey parse because you don't use Kaiten on the right skills. You lose a few percent DPS.

Oh hey, didn't you say earlier that SAM is and always was a baby job and losing Kaiten didn't make it any easier? Yet here you are saying that using Kaiten improperly would cause groups to fail enrage timers. Hmm.

Do you think about your posts before you write them?

[FrogBiscuit]

and that speaks volumes of the kinds of players the job attracts and quite frankly, community is better off without that.

This is cute coming from someone that has gone out of their way simply to be judgemental of people who were asked to share their opinion in the first place.


Your free to look at the act of un-subbing for a period of time when the game isn't as satisfying, as some kind of life defining event that is so disrespectful to SE that 'it speaks volumes to the kinds of players the job attracts'... But if you are looking for overreactions, you don't really have to go past your own posts.
(Think this screams out a lot more about you then anyone else...)


I wonder when gaming, or loyalty to a specific game became such a mental block in some people's head. Supporting something you enjoy with your money, and then pulling back when it is taken in a different direction isn't the illogical, catastrophic decision you are making it out to be... In fact its perfectly logical... And who are you to subjectively judge for a specific person and how their game time is altered when a change like 6.1 was made? (which i'll also add it is ignorant to think the only issue at hand was the loss of kaiten). And why do you essentially imply that if the game becomes appealing again, a person couldn't just re-sub? Quitting the game for a time isn't the mountain you are making it out to be.

Pretty comical though that you enter a thread with the single interest of casting judgement on others for their opinion, which was asked of them from the company in question... Dismiss their opinion with your own subjective view which you thoughtlessly expect everyone else should simple accept as the only reasonable perspective to have... And to crown it all off, have the audacity to ignorantly claim some fictionally comical higher ground and state that the community is better without them...

I wont dismiss that some posters have let their frustration peak in regards to the changes and have gotten animated. But this does little else then show their attachment and love for the game. Hardly something SE would be getting their feelings hurt over.

On the other hand, you are just in here to tell those people how much they are overreacting and that their opinions don't really matter, regardless of what SE publicly asked for.

In reflection of your comment, who would the community be better without? Seems like you need to spend a bit more time deliberating on that statement.

[Kabooa]

Yes you do. You have to actively press the button. Yes, it's optimal to use it before iaijutsu, but that doesn't mean you have to.

That's like saying you don't have a choice on when to enter Life of the Dragon on DRG, just because it's optimal to delay it for raid buffs.

There's a marked difference in "The dragoon delays it because of the party buff window" and "It's literally wrong to use Kaiten on anything but Iaijutsu and Ogi". When we speak of "Choice" in game design, it's not about whether the player is initiating an action, it's about whether there's a meaningful divergence of outcomes from those actions.

If your only outcome selections are Pass/Fail, it's not a choice, it's a formality.

Reapers have "The choice" of not alternating their powered up weapon skills.
Black mages have "The choice" of only using ice magic.
Healers have "The choice" of never using damage actions.

See how little that actually flies?

[Karious]

You don't have a choice in when you use Kaiten.

If I'm doing PvE content or doing fates or something and I feel like finishing a mob with kaiten applied to one of my GCD rotation skills, and then apply it to the next mob with an iajutsu, that's my prerogative. I have a choice.