SAM players are quitting

[Ceridwen]

To further add. If you want the SAM to be more than it is, to have more depth, a higher ceiling and to be more rewarding for reaching it.

That I can fully get behind and support, SAM is afterall supposed to be the BLM of melee, so I'm 100% behind changes that increase the skill ceiling and potential of the job at maximum optimisation.

But acting like Kaiten was the straw? That singular button? Come on folks...that's hardly some amazing ceiling when you got NINs going at their rotation like a concert pianist.

Making Samurai more complicated to be on the same level as a BLM is another matter entirely. I actually - hm - don't care at all. But I liked the class when it had a special point, a flourish, and a feel. Its placement in someone else's list of Best Classes was not a factor. They removed a special move, that looked and felt GOOD. Now it feels flat.

I don't understand what's so difficult to grasp here. Take away the reaper's Evil Minion and evil eyes. Make the monk just stand there & punch. No flips, no kicks, no spins. Make the dragoon stand flat footed & poke at things.

The Samurai had a feel. It was methodical. It felt more like a well trained swordsman than the others. It didn't feel wild or madcap or brawny. It felt like it was aiming at something, which was reached in Kaiten. An ebb and flow. That is gone and it's just 'meh, whatever.'

[CelestiCer]

• Taking away Kaiten didn't change SAM into a different playstyle
• They took one button away and spread the potency across your kit. It never ever was a big brain job
• But acting like Kaiten was the straw? That singular button? Come on folks...that's hardly some amazing ceiling when you got NINs going at their rotation like a concert pianist.
• Ya'll just need to stop conning yourselves into thinking SAM was ever anything else.

Critiquing Samurai's difficulty? Kaiten meaningless?
Brainless design gameplay? Lets see your creditability...

• You don't main Samurai...
• You don't have max level Samurai...
• You done no high-end content on Samurai...

You done none of the above, barely cleared Savage content as it is to bash a Job for over 10 posts in this singular thread... Note, you practically insulted every Samurai by basically saying that it takes no skill. It's like me saying Bard has no depth as I only took the Bard to Guildhest. With all due respect, Stfu.

I know plenty SAM friends who quit, rerolled, and I even see dediated parsers who used to main SAM, rerolling to something else. 6.1 negatively impacted the job, end of story. If you missed the memo? " Click Here ".

To discredit all of it so easily with such lack of acknowledgement like it's nothing... when it means so much... or even everything to so many... With all due respect, take your Simping opinion based on 0 experience of our Job and I ask kindly for you and people alike,... to Stfu.

You can have an opinion, but for the love of God... can it not be a flaming pile of crap regurgitated from this place called " I don't play Samurai btw ", that would actually make my day.

[FrogBiscuit]

Critiquing Samurai's difficulty? Kaiten meaningless?
Brainless design gameplay? Lets see your creditability...

The funniest part in reflection to the poster you are responding to is, they are effectively stating:
- The job was never hard (which never was anyone's argument)
- The job already has a simplistic rotation (which never was anyone's argument)
- Kaiten's removal didn't change SAM at all (not even stated as 'Kaiten's removal had minimalist impact... but it didn't change anything... You know, despite the 99% of SAM that disagree with the person that doesn't play SAM)

and despite what contradictory statements they made above, then go to question:
- Why are SAM players upset over SE making their simplistic job even more simple?!


The people that go far out of their way to comically defeat themselves with their very own words are amusing. They effectively have been proving themselves wrong or silly by providing the very contradictory self defeating answers to their very own criticism on the subject to effectively a 100% posting average.

At first I was irritated by the endlessly, narcissistic derailment they try to hijack the thread with... At this point however, silly self righteous arguments like JanVanding's which effectively answer their own boneheaded criticism from the start simple comes across as clownish, provides a chuckle, and the topic/thread a bump.

Keep them coming guys...

[Karious]

To further add. If you want the SAM to be more than it is, to have more depth, a higher ceiling and to be more rewarding for reaching it.

That I can fully get behind and support, SAM is afterall supposed to be the BLM of melee, so I'm 100% behind changes that increase the skill ceiling and potential of the job at maximum optimisation.

But acting like Kaiten was the straw? That singular button? Come on folks...that's hardly some amazing ceiling when you got NINs going at their rotation like a concert pianist.

But I literally just want kaiten and 6.08 back. I don't want them to change a bunch more crap to make the class busier. It was perfect how it was.

[Ceridwen]

But I literally just want kaiten and 6.08 back. I don't want them to change a bunch more crap to make the class busier. It was perfect how it was.

It really was! It was elegant. Special. I love other classes for other things, quirks about them. Those are the things that make it more than numbers on a spreadsheet. If people don't care - well, then one would wonder why they're here. But I care - the art of it means more than - whatever it means to people like that. Maybe this is just a difference in personality types - but games have to be more than numbers to me or they're not games. They're just math. And I hated every second of math. So maybe they just look at those who care about the feel like we're crazy. But there's an emotional component in game play - granted, for some people more than others (clearly). If you make all the classes the same, or make them dull, well... that connection fades. It just does. Healing could be improved, admittedly. I'd like say - 3 glares than turn into a bigger hit - ANYTHING. But I love healing - I love the act of it, the focus on others, the feel of helping. So that emotional component remains. But if you're dps, you go into battle a certain way. Headlong, sneaky, standing back and blasting - and the Samurai had a very distinct method. It was so CLEAN. But it wasn't flat.

But that's what annoys me, I guess, about the troll-seeming posts. I don't trot around saying they're dull and unimaginative to care about potencies (I mean, I may THINK it, but I wouldn't be bothered to go posting about it, or find my way to a forum about it...) I want my class to be good - to be viable. (nodding sadly to my poor machinist, sitting unused on an alt...)

But anyway - the Samurai was in such a good place. If they needed to reduce buttons, there were better ways. If they had to alter what Kaiten does, fine - do that. But don't remove it entirely, and leave the class just puttering along, blandly. That's just life in a gray, depressing zone.

[JanVanding]

What they took away was the need to manage resources, the choice on how to spend resources, and the importance of when to spend resources.

However shallow you think samurai was before, without Kaiten it's much, much worse. You're either completely uninformed or are intentionally downplaying it just to rile people - either way it's a bad look.

Nah I just think SAM think a little too much of themselves and it's why they're making a massive mountain out of a molehill.

MNK had an entire rework that changed entirely how they play

Did you hear MNKs threatening to quit?

Why no, no you did not and quite frankly, if threatening to quit to get your own way is how it's gonna be, maybe go because every time they do something you do not like

We will get a thread like this and that speaks volumes of the kinds of players the job attracts and quite frankly, community is better off without that.

[VentVanitas]

MNK had an entire rework that changed entirely how they play

Did you hear MNKs threatening to quit?

Veteran MNK players have been dealing with how SE handles their job for almost a decade, this is nothing new to them.

[cjbeagle]

Nah I just think SAM think a little too much of themselves and it's why they're making a massive mountain out of a molehill.

If removing all resource management, removing choice from how to spend resources, and removing the importance of choice from when to spend resources is a molehill to you, sure.

MNK had an entire rework that changed entirely how they play

Not really - monk before and after 6.0 is arguably less different than samurai before and after 6.1. The vast majority of monk gameplay is exactly the same - they just had a couple OGCDs removed and turned into Blitz that you only get to use once every 40s. Conversely, samurai's core rotation AND resource got simplified.

That said, that's another extremely important difference between the two - monk gained complexity - samurai lost complexity. You're bashing samurai for not being complex while simultaneously bashing people for lamenting the loss of what little complexity it had.

Did you hear MNKs threatening to quit? Why no, no you did not

Here's a thought: maybe they liked their changes. If we liked our changes you probably wouldn't be seeing samurai talking about quitting either, but we don't like our changes.

if threatening to quit to get your own way is how it's gonna be, maybe go because every time they do something you do not like

We will get a thread like this and that speaks volumes of the kinds of players the job attracts and quite frankly, community is better off without that.

The community is also better off without people who rejoice at bad changes out of spite.

[Ceridwen]

... that speaks volumes of the kinds of players the job attracts and quite frankly, community is better off without that.

Really? 'The kinds of players the job attracts...?' Just - no words. Who THINKS like this? Those who play several classes must be really muddled, huh?

[FrogBiscuit]

and that speaks volumes of the kinds of players the job attracts and quite frankly, community is better off without that.

This is cute coming from someone that has gone out of their way simply to be judgemental of people who were asked to share their opinion in the first place.


Your free to look at the act of un-subbing for a period of time when the game isn't as satisfying, as some kind of life defining event that is so disrespectful to SE that 'it speaks volumes to the kinds of players the job attracts'... But if you are looking for overreactions, you don't really have to go past your own posts.
(Think this screams out a lot more about you then anyone else...)


I wonder when gaming, or loyalty to a specific game became such a mental block in some people's head. Supporting something you enjoy with your money, and then pulling back when it is taken in a different direction isn't the illogical, catastrophic decision you are making it out to be... In fact its perfectly logical... And who are you to subjectively judge for a specific person and how their game time is altered when a change like 6.1 was made? (which i'll also add it is ignorant to think the only issue at hand was the loss of kaiten). And why do you essentially imply that if the game becomes appealing again, a person couldn't just re-sub? Quitting the game for a time isn't the mountain you are making it out to be.

Pretty comical though that you enter a thread with the single interest of casting judgement on others for their opinion, which was asked of them from the company in question... Dismiss their opinion with your own subjective view which you thoughtlessly expect everyone else should simple accept as the only reasonable perspective to have... And to crown it all off, have the audacity to ignorantly claim some fictionally comical higher ground and state that the community is better without them...

I wont dismiss that some posters have let their frustration peak in regards to the changes and have gotten animated. But this does little else then show their attachment and love for the game. Hardly something SE would be getting their feelings hurt over.

On the other hand, you are just in here to tell those people how much they are overreacting and that their opinions don't really matter, regardless of what SE publicly asked for.

In reflection of your comment, who would the community be better without? Seems like you need to spend a bit more time deliberating on that statement.