SAM players are quitting

[Martynek]

Not sure what they would have dropped instead.

Shoha II (Upgrade Shoha to Shoha II at the relevant level, make it a single target ability with aoe falloff like Paladin's Expiacion)
Hissatsu: Guren (Give Senei aoe falloff, same concept)
Tsubame-gaeshi's keybind (Iaijutsu automatically changes to Tsubame-Gaeshi when it would be possible to cast a Kaeshi Iaijutsu)
Ogi Namikiri's keybind (Ikishoten changes to Ogi Namikiri/Kaeshi: Namikiri after use, as appropriate)

And that's just stuff that could be harmlessly and effortlessly cut.

[RyuuZero]

Shoha II (Upgrade Shoha to Shoha II at the relevant level, make it a single target ability with aoe falloff like Paladin's Expiacion)
Hissatsu: Guren (Give Senei aoe falloff, same concept)
Tsubame-gaeshi's keybind (Iaijutsu automatically changes to Tsubame-Gaeshi when it would be possible to cast a Kaeshi Iaijutsu)
Ogi Namikiri's keybind (Ikishoten changes to Ogi Namikiri/Kaeshi: Namikiri after use, as appropriate)

And that's just stuff that could be harmlessly and effortlessly cut.

I think I'm going to explode
Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations! the PLD Skill change is something that I would explain with Tank Gameplay dumbing down even further because no one cares and the new skill looks flashy or Tank do not have to think about AoE and Single Target Situation, just get the Enmity!
same with Senei and Guren, Senei is for Single Target, Guren is for AoE.. my only idea for Skills like that to change would be to drop resource requirement for longer cool down skills, like Senei, Guren, Bunshin, ect. since those Skills can be used once ever 2minutes anyway.
Your Tsubamegaeshi Idea is something I can see, though there they should change it that Kaeshi Higanbana works alongside Higanbana and potency adjustments
and about Ogi Namikiri, I wrote a Macro that does just that and works just fine:

/macroicon "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ogi Namikiri"

just copy&paste this into your macros, and press the button 3times in combat, gg.. and please before you come at me with "but it's a Macro, I do not want this", fine but seriously try that macro first before judging^^
I assume we get a Single Target Ogi with lvl92, in 7.0 anyway because Ogi Namikiri is AoE

There is alot of disagreement among us Samurai, but in One Thing, we must be clear, they have to Bring Back Kaiten!

[Martynek]

I think I'm going to explode
Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations! the PLD Skill change is something that I would explain with Tank Gameplay dumbing down even further because no one cares and the new skill looks flashy or Tank do not have to think about AoE and Single Target Situation, just get the Enmity!
same with Senei and Guren, Senei is for Single Target, Guren is for AoE.. my only idea for Skills like that to change would be to drop resource requirement for longer cool down skills, like Senei, Guren, Bunshin, ect. since those Skills can be used once ever 2minutes anyway.

and about Ogi Namikiri, I wrote a Macro that does just that and works just fine:

/macroicon "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ogi Namikiri"

just copy&paste this into your macros, and press the button 3times in combat, gg.. and please before you come at me with "but it's a Macro, I do not want this", fine but seriously try that macro first before judging^^

I don't think I can respect your stance on this if you're using macros for core rotation abilities.
You also don't seem to understand that tank damage matters with your "Just get the enmity!" stance, despite being about 2/3 as strong as a DPS assuming equal skill - they absolutely contribute to make or break DPS checks.

Also, I don't think we're getting a single target Ogi. It's not an aoe exactly, but rather a single target ability with falloff.

[RyuuZero]

I don't think I can respect your stance on this if you're using macros for core rotation abilities.
You also don't seem to understand that tank damage matters with your "Just get the enmity!" stance, despite being about 2/3 as strong as a DPS assuming equal skill - they absolutely contribute to make or break DPS checks.

Also, I don't think we're getting a single target Ogi. It's not an aoe exactly, but rather a single target ability with falloff.

I miss Stance Dancing to be honest.. and the changes the Devs brought to Tanks and Healers in Shadowbringers I assume was made to focus them to their roles, now do I agree with it(?), not entirely but wiping on esuna-ble Debuffs in a 24men raid had to be address (kind of like SE still didn't add B and C Spawn Points for the Atomos Part in CT) but Enmity is the Tank's Main Duty to keep track of. About the macro.. have you tried it? ^^ all I did is to put Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri on One Button, the stuff that soo many Samurai ask for and I just did that with the Tools that the Game provides itself.

[Eorzean_username]

I think I'm going to explode
Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations!

do you also think that Dragoon should have Geirskogul II, Nastrond II, Dragonfire Dive II, and Stardiver II?

[Ruminous]

It goes without saying that I don't think they have a proper QA team for changes like these, and the person(people) in charge of the changes spit it out and let the playerbase test their changes out. Or if they do have a QA team, it spends its time on content, IE: dragonsong war, the new dungeon, and anything coming up in 6.2.

Negative feedback/player feedback is better than incurring the cost of spending money to get more people to test your stuff, if you can avoid it. And these changes aren't quite "major" additions to the game, despite how awful and ill thought out they are.

[xAFROx]

Gotta drop some abilities when you add some new ones in. I don't think dropping a potency modifier is a bad choice. I mean, it's kind of fun but certainly not very high on my list of interesting rotation mechanics. Not sure what they would have dropped instead. Maybe Ikishoten; never really found gauge shortcuts all that compelling. Or maybe Meikyo Shisui, it circumvents Sen Gauge building and I'm not a huge fan of anything that ignores the core of a job's identity. But they had to drop something, SAM is pushing three full bars.

But what do I know? I'm not a game designer.

They could've done literally anything to cut down on space without removing any of our existing kit. Look at all the feedback that came in before and after patch 6.1 dropped.

Senei and guren could be either combined or be made to transform Shinten and Kyuten under a certain status like WAR with Infuriate.

Shoha 1 and 2 could be combined or transform the Meditate button based on Meditation stacks, or they could transform Shinten/Kyuten when meditation is full.

Ogi and Kaeshi Namikiri should have been on Ikishoten from the start.

Tsubame doesn't need to be a button all to itself, Ogi Namikiri proves that and several other abilities in pve and pvp prove that a cooldown will still tick even with a secondary ability to proc on the same button when it transforms.

With so much space that could be made, your saying that the amount of space being taken on the hotbars is literally long debunked already.

Kaiten wasn't removed for hotbar space. It was done specifically to flatten the burst damage of SAM..... you know, that one thing that SAM has always been, a burst damage type. Unlike MNK which was always more of the steady stream of damage that builds up over the course of the fight due to the speed of it all.

But yes, the fact that NIN and PLD exist in the game and are already needing 3 bars since ShB being given more stuff is a sign that a different job needed trimming, naturally, who are we to think logically of what they could do with these?

[Foraet]

They could've done literally anything to cut down on space without removing any of our existing kit. Look at all the feedback that came in before and after patch 6.1 dropped.

Feedback? Do you mean the forums? The forums are a cacophony. Most people just complain. The people who do give constructive feedback don't even agree. There are not even enough people here to be a proper sample of the userbase. Forums are just a funnel for people to complain who have one foot out of the door to have the illusion that the development team is actually listening to their opinions. The truth is most people won't notice or won't care about the changes. The ones that do will be over it by the time the next patch hits.

[Quor]

Feedback? Do you mean the forums? The forums are a cacophony. Most people just complain. The people who do give constructive feedback don't even agree. There are not even enough people here to be a proper sample of the userbase. Forums are just a funnel for people to complain who have one foot out of the door to have the illusion that the development team is actually listening to their opinions. The truth is most people won't notice or won't care about the changes. The ones that do will be over it by the time the next patch hits.

Hard disagree there. I saw so many first-time forum posters that I stopped counting after 100. If over 100 new people come to the forums to complain about a recent or upcoming change then that's a Big Deal from the perspective of the developers.

Now, whether or not they act on it is another thing entirely. But to say the forums were a "cacophony" or that most people "didn't agree" is just wrong; there is near-universal dislike of the SAM changes with the vast majority of people wanting Kaiten restored via a 6.08 reversion.

[xAFROx]

I think I'm going to explode
Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations! the PLD Skill change is something that I would explain with Tank Gameplay dumbing down even further because no one cares and the new skill looks flashy or Tank do not have to think about AoE and Single Target Situation, just get the Enmity!
same with Senei and Guren, Senei is for Single Target, Guren is for AoE.. my only idea for Skills like that to change would be to drop resource requirement for longer cool down skills, like Senei, Guren, Bunshin, ect. since those Skills can be used once ever 2minutes anyway.
Your Tsubamegaeshi Idea is something I can see, though there they should change it that Kaeshi Higanbana works alongside Higanbana and potency adjustments
and about Ogi Namikiri, I wrote a Macro that does just that and works just fine:

/macroicon "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ogi Namikiri"

just copy&paste this into your macros, and press the button 3times in combat, gg.. and please before you come at me with "but it's a Macro, I do not want this", fine but seriously try that macro first before judging^^
I assume we get a Single Target Ogi with lvl92, in 7.0 anyway because Ogi Namikiri is AoE

There is alot of disagreement among us Samurai, but in One Thing, we must be clear, they have to Bring Back Kaiten!

You do realize that abilities can be multipurpose, right?

While having a situational button for choice of single target and aoe is fine, it's just a response on button consolidation options that are available versus outright pruning by removing abilities. Nothing would be lost if those types were combined as they share cooldowns and resources.

In the absence of having a single target ability, do you just not use the big hitting aoe on a single target boss? Like running SAM at 70, do you not use Guren if it isn't aoe?