SAM players are quitting

[IkaraGreydancer]

Was there some special flourish and flair when you cast Nocturnal Sect that defined the Astrologian? Because - what does this have to do with anything?

Also, since you don't care... why on earth are you here? I don't think I've found my way to topics about which I care nothing... But also, unless you refer to the reddit meme-friendly sector, what forum abounds with positive energy? People fight on a message board about raising CHICKENS, ffs. I recall one where people went nuts over using the wrong mascara.

And is there some reason people such as yourself are blindly forgetting they *asked for this feedback?* That would reasonably include how strongly a player reacts, wouldn't it? If someone doesn't feel like playing because their class feels flat and dull, I'd guess they'd want to hear about it.

Oddly enough where did I say I didn't care? I said it's lesser of a deal to me than the Sect being removed. You're injecting due to emotion and it's showing bright as day. Calm down
And I'd say the dual sects did help define what Ast was. That heavily defined it to me while it doesn't for others. Same for Kaiten. Some don't care at all that it's gone and still feel Sam is well defined. Nobody is wrong there.
Also in regards to feedback I was simply pointing it out to said person I was responding to. Wasn't for you respectfully.

[IkaraGreydancer]

The sect nobody used, as opposed to the skill that was used 4-5 times per minute. Yes, apt comparison.

People are welcome to like the changes. They're welcome to offer their opinion, or even provide arguments for why the job is better now. What we tend not to welcome is what we tend to get; people who insult or disparage those who don't like the changes, in threads about not liking the changes.

Really wish I knew how to reply to multiple people but you're only proving my point. Plenty of us used n Maines Nocturnal but yall don't care about that. Unlike you I'm not outright dismissing Kaiten being gone.

And folks can't even say they simply just adapt without being told they aren't adapting they're just settling for what THEY feel is worse. What's considered an insult alot of the time here is just a differing opinion but people are to sensitive and tied to their beliefs to see that. Folks saying yall are whining? For sure. Folks saying it's not that bad? Often times is met with "no they destroyed the class its unplayable now". People need to chill

[JanVanding]

Personally, I didn't like the old Summoner at all. I played it to level it, and that was that. The new version is simple, but I like it better. But other people don't, and I find no reason to go and annoy them with my opinion, since it matters to them. Though I will say, I do not see the flourish of flinging out a dot. I pretty much hate dots on all classes - they're just annoying maintenance. But if someone wants to petition to bring them back, have at it.

Also, why would anyone want Stoneskin back? I see WHMs wanting reasonable things, like a bit more for damage. I'd like 3 glares to lead to a more interesting pop, personally. As for the SCH, all I'd want is a less ditsy looking faerie...

I'm getting the sense you're not paying much attention - you just sound mad that people want Kaiten back. You don't even seem to understand WHY. It's not 'unfair,' and it's not 'hard done.' But - ugh - why bother? Yes, we're all a strangely peculiar part of the playerbase (at least, that part of our collective psyche that plays Samurai - I figure mine is balanced by my healers & mages so my psychological deformity is, at worst, mixed)

So this is all I have left, because the tea is wearing off... *They asked for feedback about this particular change.* People care about it, so they're posting. Some care enough to unsub. If you don't like it, oh well.

Easy answer on Stoneskin, because it was a nice Utility mitigation that was helpful in a lot of situations.

And I'm quite okay with SAM getting Kaiten back, I'm just not buying this whole "it provided a skill ceiling" argument. It was one button that you pressed before Higanbana or Midare.

Heck maybe argue for it getting the Enochan/Greased Lighting treatment? I don't think that would be a bad shout

[cjbeagle]

And it's *not* providing feedback telling people you're going to Quit/Uninstall if they don't revert a change.

That is a demand with a threat and that's the kind of thing the Devs will outright ignore.

It may be a demand and a threat, but it's also feedback, even if all it amounts to is "I don't like it - and I don't like it so much that I'm going to stop giving you money if you don't fix it."

Articulate feedback is great, but nothing carries as much weight as "I'm going to stop giving you money."

[Ceridwen]

Easy answer on Stoneskin, because it was a nice Utility mitigation that was helpful in a lot of situations.

And I'm quite okay with SAM getting Kaiten back, I'm just not buying this whole "it provided a skill ceiling" argument. It was one button that you pressed before Higanbana or Midare.

Heck maybe argue for it getting the Enochan/Greased Lighting treatment? I don't think that would be a bad shout

Ok, I can agree with that. I prefer the watery splash I have now, but that is a good reason for stoneskin. Fair enough. I can't say I thought it was a skill ceiling issue, either. I just liked it - it felt good. Its absence leaves a void. I'd be fine with them reworking what it does, as long as it has that lovely flow.

[AsiTsurugi]

Really wish I knew how to reply to multiple people but you're only proving my point. Plenty of us used n Maines Nocturnal but yall don't care about that. Unlike you I'm not outright dismissing Kaiten being gone.

And folks can't even say they simply just adapt without being told they aren't adapting they're just settling for what THEY feel is worse. What's considered an insult alot of the time here is just a differing opinion but people are to sensitive and tied to their beliefs to see that. Folks saying yall are whining? For sure. Folks saying it's not that bad? Often times is met with "no they destroyed the class its unplayable now". People need to chill

Okay you know what, I liked the fact that AST had two sects in ShB and was pretty unhappy they homogenized and made it just a regen healer. But you should also realize when that happened. It happened during an expansion launch, when everyone expects jobs to change drastically. So I have to ask you to stop trying to draw the false equivalence for these two changes, because one happened when people largely expect changes to happen, and another happened 4 months into a new expansion, after people settled into a playstyle and almost universally enjoyed it. The added bonus is that, in the latter case, feedback was explicitly sought.

Now, if you are really this concerned about AST's changes that you feel the need to come into a DPS subforum, and specifically a SAM thread, to post this, maybe that effort will be better served on the healer subforum.

[JanVanding]

It may be a demand and a threat, but it's also feedback, even if all it amounts to is "I don't like it - and I don't like it so much that I'm going to stop giving you money if you don't fix it."

Articulate feedback is great, but nothing carries as much weight as "I'm going to stop giving you money."

If only it worked like that eh? If it's a massive and organized unsubscribe, that would garner attention, but I can guarantee half of them saying it aren't doing it, or will resub when the next thing to be angry about comes up in two weeks.

Devs do appreciate good honest feedback they can quantify, they just skim over "I'll uninstall" comments.

Even when the situation is dire and people really are uninstalling, see how long it took the WoW devs to actually react to their massive playerbase hit.

[JanVanding]

Ok, I can agree with that. I prefer the watery splash I have now, but that is a good reason for stoneskin. Fair enough. I can't say I thought it was a skill ceiling issue, either. I just liked it - it felt good. Its absence leaves a void. I'd be fine with them reworking what it does, as long as it has that lovely flow.

Well my thinking on that is similar to Enochan the meter builds while you have resources and they could put the animation back in as a tell that your next weaponskill has the Kaiten weaponskill potency buff

So it would become a Baked in passive kenki meter builder and at full your next weaponskill gets buffed

[Ceridwen]

Okay you know what, I liked the fact that AST had two sects in ShB and was pretty unhappy they homogenized and made it just a regen healer. But you should also realize when that happened. It happened during an expansion launch, when everyone expects jobs to change drastically. So I have to ask you to stop trying to draw the false equivalence for these two changes, because one happened when people largely expect changes to happen, and another happened 4 months into a new expansion, after people settled into a playstyle and almost universally enjoyed it. The added bonus is that, in the latter case, feedback was explicitly sought.

Now, if you are really this concerned about AST's changes that you feel the need to come into a DPS subforum, and specifically a SAM thread, to post this, maybe that effort will be better served on the healer subforum.

AST feels like it hasn't found itself, or maybe it lost itself. And I used to wish there was more reason to use Noct, but it seemed to end up better to use the other anyway. I get why they did it, but it doesn't feel finished right now. (and I don't like the Lord/Lady thing - it's so - awkward or tedious or something) But yes, issue for the healer section, I suppose.

I still don't see what it has to do with Kaiten, though. It was a choice - I love having a choice, but it wasn't exactly a visual pop or meaningful moment in gameplay. (and it wasn't really a choice - just, oh, there's a whm, better use noct, except later when it didn't seem worth it.) Kaiten seems more like - the reaper going into Prime Evil Mode, maybe. In effect, I guess it's more like life surge, & I'd bet that's how they saw it. I wouldn't honestly care if they removed life surge because it feels like a button to push. I don't even remember what my characters do when I push it.

There isn't a good equivalent, or not one I can think of just now. If people went nuts over losing life surge, I wouldn't really understand. I can only think they don't play Samurai, so it's all the same in their eyes.

[Ceridwen]

Well my thinking on that is similar to Enochan the meter builds while you have resources and they could put the animation back in as a tell that your next weaponskill has the Kaiten weaponskill potency buff

So it would become a Baked in passive kenki meter builder and at full your next weaponskill gets buffed

I'd be happy with that!