Pandæmonium story

[Kes13a]

In the 5.0-6.0 stories, the Ancients have been portrayed as god-like characters with creation magicks who have infinite productivity and a near-infinite lifespan - everyone seeks common ground and there is no fighting, so their social structure as well as their emotions should be completely different from humans, which is why I like Hermes : He is the first ancient to show human emotions and values, to reveal a non-divine side.

Back to the point: the ancients had the "most progressive" society, but on the other hand, the story of Pandæmonium absurdly shows us the typical pre-modernism side of this society, a single-parent family that is common in reality. -The mother raises her child alone and then dies, the son resents his workaholic father who doesn't care about the family, and then the ancients fight over trivial and personal matters blah blah ......
This is ridiculous and I think it overturns the portrayal of ancient civilization in the previous stories, I can't find any hint of the "progressiveness" of ancient civilization and the "divinity" that was supposed to be prevalent in ancient societies that is often mentioned in the 5.0 stories ...... and this makes Hermes, the main character, look like a depressed sociopath in the previous stories

Pandæmonium's story makes ancient civilisation look like a cheesy family TV show with a new twist. If the story were set in Japan, China, America or Russia, or anywhere in real world, there would be nothing to fault, but the problem is that Pandæmonium takes place in the FFXIV ancient world.

just curious... since you obviously have reasoned all this out. Who was saying all these glowing things about the ancients? They were happy, they were perfect, they were godlike.... you did notice that was the unsundered remnants... untold THOUSANDS of years removed from their society? Thew remnants that went through the catastrophic end of their very world?

if nothing else it is a very fitting, I thought, view of a origin world/society that the Ascians were trying to bring back, in their flawed utopian vision. naturally they would say and believe it was perfect, it was one way to justify what they were trying to do, because it was "better"

it shows nothing else that a caricature of humanity as we sit. the past is always generally rose coloured. the game was better, there were no jerks, bots were unheard of etc.. the same thing goes on, and you dont need a game to tell you that. the 50's and 60's were better... people were friendlier, kids were safe.. you left your doors unlocked.. blah blah blah...

the world of the ancient Ascians in was never said they were emotionless.. but it seemed they were more like Vulcans in Star Trek... lack of emotions was a facade, hidden behind a mask. since ancient or not, they were seemingly human... I believe the point was they were just as flawed as we are today, both in game as as real humans.

[Saraide]

But I don't think what happened in Elpis explains Emet's aspirational description of the ancient world in 5.0, and the phantoms that WoL met in the Tempest who had qualities that humans didn't.

I have a bridge in brooklyn to sell to you.

[Lepus_Aetherius]

Thank you all for your replies.

I think the Ancients in 6.0 were positioned as "gods" rather than "perfect", superior but not omniscient. But 5.0's portrayal of the Ancients is closer to a perfect utopian classical society that exists in the philosopher's ideal.

The origin of the proper name 'Elpis', the Greek naming of the Ancients, and the name of Venat's companion Argos are all indicative of the fact that the Ancients were based on Greek gods who were very close to human. In Greek mythology, the heroes are not omniscient and the gods are not omnipotent, and the writers of FFXIV want to through the mouth of the "perfect" Ancients to physically tell mankind that perfection never exists, in the spirit of Milton's Paradise Lost - the gods are dead.

Since 5.0, FFXIV has portrayed the Ancients as a perfect, sane group of people who do not care about life and death, who do not take things personally, and who, despite their mood swings, are different from humans.
In 6.0 the Ancients are more closely detailed, and to do so requires breaking down many illusions, so that in the 6.0 story the writers' twist on their portrayal creates a slight fragmentation. with this fragmentation is not destined to provide a "story that will please everyone", but at least I can understand it.
The Pandæmonium story is another matter, and I think it directly destroys the portrayal of the Ancients in 5.0-6.0 - the Ancients are completely portrayed as ordinary people like Eorzean, which is very confusing.

[Kolsykol]

The Elpis side quests dispel the idea that Hermes was the only Ancient to experience emotions. We saw plenty of examples of Ancients caring for each other and/or their creations.

Huh? It was more about negative emotions when it came to Hermes tho?
Hence the flowers always being white because everyone was always happy except him.

[Avidria]

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../#sidestory_07



Dunno, Eric seems to be more well-known for... chain magics so far, while Bad Dad Lahabread was the genius at creating concepts. In any case, I'm already expecting some kind of cheesy dad/son reconciliation and something that really makes such an impression on not-Elidibus that he still remembers it 12k+ years later.

Unless they subvert all expectations and everything I'm thinking of is upside-down! But that'll take at least a year or so to materialize.

Ahh interesting, and fair. I'd have to go back and play or read through things again to know for sure, but my thought processes for them feasibly being different people was like... the Lahabrea of "present" Elpis is praised and raised up as this brilliant genius scientist and creator, while the current Lahabrea seemed to get... I dunno, talked down on by the other Unsundered a fair amount. Their opinion of him felt wildly different to what we see of the Lahabrea of the past.

Which, an apocalypse or two and a few millennia after all of that would certainly have huge impacts on a guy. So I mean. I could see it going either way lol

[KizuyaKatogami]

Genuine question here, but what would they need to retcon to make that the case? Is it explicitly stated anywhere that the genius scientist Lahabrea everyone seemed to love is the same Lahabrea we kicked into dust in Prae? There is a time gap between Elpis and the Final Days.

Someone already answered you but i just wanted to remark after the Prae changes it’s he who kicks us into dust. Literally one shots us hehe. If it wasn’t for mommy we’d be nothing more than a scorch mark on the ground

[Avidria]

Someone already answered you but i just wanted to remark after the Prae changes it’s he who kicks us into dust. Literally one shots us hehe. If it wasn’t for mommy we’d be nothing more than a scorch mark on the ground

Oh that's really funny. I haven't done the new Prae at all yet but I'm kinda glad he's not just a memey pushover anymore with that haha

[TheMightyMollusk]

Since 5.0, FFXIV has portrayed the Ancients as a perfect, sane group of people who do not care about life and death, who do not take things personally, and who, despite their mood swings, are different from humans.
In 6.0 the Ancients are more closely detailed, and to do so requires breaking down many illusions, so that in the 6.0 story the writers' twist on their portrayal creates a slight fragmentation. This fragmentation is not destined to provide a "story that will please everyone", but at least I can understand it.

5.0's description of the Ancients is entirely through Emet-Selch's heavily biased point of view, after spending millenia looking back through rose-tinted glasses. In 6.0 we actually go back and see them for ourselves.

[Lepus_Aetherius]

The Elpis side quests dispel the idea that Hermes was the only Ancient to experience emotions. We saw plenty of examples of Ancients caring for each other and/or their creations.

石川夏子, the head writer of 5.0-6.0, calls him "the first to think about sorrow and the first to offer a different opinion in that world. And because he was the first, he failed completely, and Hermes' failure left the people of Etheirys with the earliest 'blemish'"

[Theodric]

石川夏子, the head writer of 5.0-6.0, calls him "the first to think about sorrow and the first to offer a different opinion in that world. And because he was the first, he failed completely, and Hermes' failure left the people of Etheirys with the earliest 'blemish'"

Yeah, that's what she said - though it's directly contradicted by the side quests in both Elpis and Amaurot.

There's a big thread which has had many players give some insight on the contradictions when it comes to Endwalker's story and how a lot of things seem to be ignored or turned into caricatures in order to weirdly try and justify the deliberate genocide of the Ancients at the hands of Hermes and Venat:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...y-in-Endwalker