Leveling/playing DPS is actively punished

[Ruminous]

The fact that WoW has bad dps queues doesn't disprove the approach - it just means they'd be even worse if WoW had a 1/1/2 ratio. It's just a supply and demand problem - the supply only decreases if the queue times are so long that people drop queue or change their role because of the projected wait, so increase the demand.

That's more or less what I'm highlighting here. It doesn't change the supply vs demand. The only ways to really increase it would be to give more rewards to the dps players to queue (not a good thing for the tanks/healers) or vice versa. Adding more slots in wont really change the issue of supply and demand either unless the dps numbers you can cram in are much, much higher.

That being said, I'd rather address the issue of leveling itself. If dungeons are the only 'quick' way to level, then we'd need to find other solutions that don't involve dungeons. Or, something more freeform that a group of 4 can do that doesn't require the typical 1/1/2 setup to do. The world is a very large place, and they can always find ways to do more with it.

[Ransu]

That's more or less what I'm highlighting here. It doesn't change the supply vs demand. The only ways to really increase it would be to give more rewards to the dps players to queue (not a good thing for the tanks/healers) or vice versa. Adding more slots in wont really change the issue of supply and demand either unless the dps numbers you can cram in are much, much higher.

That being said, I'd rather address the issue of leveling itself. If dungeons are the only 'quick' way to level, then we'd need to find other solutions that don't involve dungeons. Or, something more freeform that a group of 4 can do that doesn't require the typical 1/1/2 setup to do. The world is a very large place, and they can always find ways to do more with it.

But dungeons are not the only fast way to level...I don't even touch dungeons half the time when leveling another dps job.

[cjbeagle]

That's more or less what I'm highlighting here. It doesn't change the supply vs demand.

It does though - if the group comp was 1/1/3 that increases the demand for dps by 50% - every queue pop grabs an additional dps, which means less dps in queue which means lower queue times.

Regardless, your core point is that other methods should be just as viable as dungeon spam, and you're right.

[Luizgazen]

It does though - if the group comp was 1/1/3 that increases the demand for dps by 50% - every queue pop grabs an additional dps, which means less dps in queue which means lower queue times.

Regardless, your core point is that other methods should be just as viable as dungeon spam, and you're right.

It wouldn't change anything really, the moment the queues for DPS are reduced, players like the OP who only got to tank or heal begrudingly would rush back into DPS jobs raising the queues to right were they were before...

[Dzian]

It does though - if the group comp was 1/1/3 that increases the demand for dps by 50% - every queue pop grabs an additional dps, which means less dps in queue which means lower queue times.

Regardless, your core point is that other methods should be just as viable as dungeon spam, and you're right.

They deliberately went against this by design.. i cant rememebr the exact words they used but it goes back to ARR and them basically saying they wouldnt make other methods of levelling as fast or as viable because it would make it difficult for players to progress.. if grinding fates was just as fast or faster than dungeon queues for example then poor timmy who needs to clear the vault for the story is screwed because noones queuing dungeons or levelling roulettes.

There have been numerous ideas of fixes though. that would help those levelling dps jobs. from things like making roulettes reward EXP boosting scrolls instead of just a flat EXP boost. so i wanna level my lol drg. which i havent touched since 1.0. then i could just burn a roulette on my paladin get a scroll and use that scroll on my dragoon to gain a massive chunk of exp.. everyone wins.. i get a faster queue by queing as a tank but still able to level my dps. job. the dps gets a faster queue because theres more tanks.. and sure people might pipe up about how you wouldnt know how to play drg at 90.. if you levelled it with scrolls.. so what.. the levelling process teaches you nothing anyway especially if the roulettes continously put you in 50-60 content...

in my experience though its healers that are the problem currently. its not uncommon to open the duty finder and see green on the AIN all the way down the list..

the other issue and this they learnt from heavensward is that job balance really doesnt matter at all..

In ARR for example there was 2 tank jobs, 2 healer jobs, and 6 dps jobs.

in HW there were 3 tank job, 3 healer jobs, and 7 dps jobs. and the devs thought that by increasing the number of tank and healer jobs, more people would play tanks and healers.. that didnt happen

what happened was most of the people that picked up dark knight for example came from either paladins or warriors and as such were already laying tanks.. the same with most of the people who picked up astrologian.. they came from people who had played whm or sch..

in terms of role distribution the ratio of tank / healer players to dps players really didnt change at all. and on the whole it still hasnt even with 4 tanks and 4 healers.. and it wouldnt change much with 10 tank jobs or 10 healer jobs.

[BRVV]

its not uncommon to open the duty finder and see green on the AIN all the way down the list..

On my server it's full of blue

[pympcakes]

That's more or less what I'm highlighting here. It doesn't change the supply vs demand

The demand is for dungeon DPS slots. Going from 2 to 3 would increase the supply by 50%. That other factors may limit the impact of this change does not negate that this would increase supply by 50%.

Consider an extreme where it takes 1,000,000 DPS players per 1 tank and 1 healer. Supply would far outstrip demand.

[AnotherPerson]

The demand is for dungeon DPS slots. Going from 2 to 3 would increase the supply by 50%. That other factors may limit the impact of this change does not negate that this would increase supply by 50%.

Consider an extreme where it takes 1,000,000 DPS players per 1 tank and 1 healer. Supply would far outstrip demand.

Ah, but you see, that would mean there has to be less players who queues in as healers/tanks just to get a quick daily in for that to work. That's because most of the people who now play healers and tanks aren't actually healer or tank mains, but rather DPS but also just want a fast roulette done without waiting for a long time in queue. They're just there for the tomes or mount rewards, not healer or tank mains.

However, if DPS queues suddenly get shorter, they'll jump back to the DPS line, thereby not affecting the supply at all -- because ultimately the supply for healers/tanks go down while DPS goes up.

So rather than having 15 players:
5 tanks, 5 healers, 10 DPS ==> 5 teams.

You end up having:
3 tanks, 3 healers, 14 DPS ==> 3 teams and 5 displaced DPS.

Then, DPS gets impatient, which results in:
4 tanks, 4 healers, 12 DPS ==> 4 teams

So no, that doesn't increase supply. It just moves the total numbers of healers to tanks around, but the ratio stays the same.