Leveling/playing DPS is actively punished

[AaronSound]

Dungeon leveling IS the fastest way to level a job, of this "luxury" Tanks and Healers partake, but DPS cannot reliably. The Queue times are long, often taking me 10-15+ minutes to play in a 25/30 minute dungeon.
Add to that the fact a lot of the game's content is Duty specific (Trials Raids Dailies Dungeons) making it feel you are actively discouraged from trying DPS jobs.

I understand that it's not to the creator's discretion to make DPS have fast queues, which is a by product of Tank and Healer gameplay and why they're not as popular, but some measures have to be taken so DPS doesn't take suuuuch an long time to even get running,
i myself play since December, and in my course of 1k hours + only my reaper is high level dps because he starts at 70. I started the game as a Monk, got to 60 and gave up, transitioning to Tank,

over a half of the game's playable styles depends on the player's patience. The game's boom in popularity and over a half of Jobs being DPS will only make the problem bigger.

Please, perhaps rise the XP DPS gets for Dungeons or other activities, "just try Bozja or other mode" isn't a good argument, you're secluding a portion of the player base because they want to play in a relatively good time (Try Queueing up for a daily duty as Tank or Healer to see my point. It's super fast) and again, Bozja isn't as good to level as Dungeons.

Also Bozja requires you to at least be level 71+ DPS, so you have to get there...

Changing healer's tool kit would also be a really really good decision to boost Healer player rates, thus reduce DPS Queue lenght. 2 DPS Buttons ( Sage has technicaly 3) for a healer isn't fun, it's boring, this isn't just accesability, this is stripping down a role to it's base needs just to get by, i do not expect Healer to have as wild of rotations as DPS, nor anyone wants that. But 2 buttons that actively deal damage just isn't enough. (spamming Key 1 and then every half a minute key 2)

I always wanted to play DPS jobs (which is the majority of the Jobs) but in the current state i could play way more of Tank which is a good middle ground from DPS, and not waste my time (DPS Queue) while not being bored (by Healer damage gameplay and DPS Queue)

Why would i play DPS if there are so many hurdles to get to fun gameplay.

(I have a lot of hours on Healer, i enjoy the healing but the ease and mindnumbness of pressing 2 buttons to deal damage throws me off.)

[cjbeagle]

It would definitely help to make tanks and/or especially healers more fun, but they could also just make dungeons be 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 dps instead of only 2 - that alone would instantly cut dps queue times drastically.

[Ruminous]

It would definitely help to make tanks and/or especially healers more fun, but they could also just make dungeons be 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 dps instead of only 2 - that alone would instantly cut dps queue times drastically.

A typical group in wow was 1/1/3, tank, healer, dps. Queue times were still anywhere from 7 to 20 minutes if you were a dps. Doesn't quite work as well as you'd think, unfortunately. Not making leveling as dependent on doing dungeons (IE: More than fates) would be a better solution.

[cjbeagle]

A typical group in wow was 1/1/3, tank, healer, dps. Queue times were still anywhere from 7 to 20 minutes if you were a dps. Doesn't quite work as well as you'd think, unfortunately. Not making leveling as dependent on doing dungeons (IE: More than fates) would be a better solution.

The fact that WoW has bad dps queues doesn't disprove the approach - it just means they'd be even worse if WoW had a 1/1/2 ratio. It's just a supply and demand problem - the supply only decreases if the queue times are so long that people drop queue or change their role because of the projected wait, so increase the demand.

EDIT: Overwatch has an interesting solution to this problem, which is a voucher system where you can queue as a tank or healer to earn a voucher, then spend that voucher to cut to the front of the line as dps. For people who don't mind tanking or healing, but do want to dps, but not wait, this allows them get insta-queues as dps by first doing a game as a tank or healer, which many players are perfectly happy to do, however for dps who only want to dps, it still lowers the queue time because of all the people queuing as tanks and healers to earn their vouchers. Disclaimer: I'm not sure if that system is still in place - haven't touched the game in like 3 years - doubt it'd work as well with their new 2/2/2 mandate.

[Hysorn]

The fact that WoW has bad dps queues doesn't disprove the approach - it just means they'd be even worse if WoW had a 1/1/2 ratio. It's just a supply and demand problem - the supply only decreases if the queue times are so long that people drop queue or change their role because of the projected wait, so increase the demand.

EDIT: Overwatch has an interesting solution to this problem, which is a voucher system where you can queue as a tank or healer to earn a voucher, then spend that voucher to cut to the front of the line as dps. For people who don't mind tanking or healing, but do want to dps, but not wait, this allows them get insta-queues as dps by first doing a game as a tank or healer, which many players are perfectly happy to do, however for dps who only want to dps, it still lowers the queue time because of all the people queuing as tanks and healers to earn their vouchers. Disclaimer: I'm not sure if that system is still in place - haven't touched the game in like 3 years - doubt it'd work as well with their new 2/2/2 mandate.

Another thing that makes it worse is that the tank responsibility in WoW is pretty big, for M+ you are the one supposed to know routes, which packs to kill and which to avoid, compensate for any mistakes your group might make like pulling a pack you could've skipped etc, which is to say, in that content alone you literally have to do homework before doing content, while the other two roles just gotta make sure they don't screw things up. WoW dungeons are also way less linear than FFXIV's, newer tanks might get flamed a lot for not knowing optimal routes.

Also, yet another thing, Tanks usually are extremely niche in PvP and extremely slow in World content, DPS overall feel more versatile when it comes to what content you can participate in, not to mention that most guilds usually have their 2 dedicated tanks in their 24man statics, there's way more spots available for DPS than tanks.

WoW's issue is far bigger than FFXIV's in that regard.

[cjbeagle]

Another thing that makes it worse is that the tank responsibility in WoW is pretty big, for M+ you are the one supposed to know routes, which packs to kill and which to avoid, compensate for any mistakes your group might make like pulling a pack you could've skipped etc, which is to say, in that content alone you literally have to do homework before doing content, while the other two roles just gotta make sure they don't screw things up. WoW dungeons are also way less linear than FFXIV's, newer tanks might get flamed a lot for not knowing optimal routes.

Also, yet another thing, Tanks usually are extremely niche in PvP and extremely slow in World content, DPS overall feel more versatile when it comes to what content you can participate in, not to mention that most guilds usually have their 2 dedicated tanks in their 24man statics, there's way more spots available for DPS than tanks.

WoW's issue is far bigger than FFXIV's in that regard.

Very, very, very true. Tanking M+ was legitimately more nerve-wracking than tanking raids for me. That's also a really good point about the PVP distribution in WoW - I hadn't considered that.

[Ruminous]

The fact that WoW has bad dps queues doesn't disprove the approach - it just means they'd be even worse if WoW had a 1/1/2 ratio. It's just a supply and demand problem - the supply only decreases if the queue times are so long that people drop queue or change their role because of the projected wait, so increase the demand.

That's more or less what I'm highlighting here. It doesn't change the supply vs demand. The only ways to really increase it would be to give more rewards to the dps players to queue (not a good thing for the tanks/healers) or vice versa. Adding more slots in wont really change the issue of supply and demand either unless the dps numbers you can cram in are much, much higher.

That being said, I'd rather address the issue of leveling itself. If dungeons are the only 'quick' way to level, then we'd need to find other solutions that don't involve dungeons. Or, something more freeform that a group of 4 can do that doesn't require the typical 1/1/2 setup to do. The world is a very large place, and they can always find ways to do more with it.

[Ransu]

That's more or less what I'm highlighting here. It doesn't change the supply vs demand. The only ways to really increase it would be to give more rewards to the dps players to queue (not a good thing for the tanks/healers) or vice versa. Adding more slots in wont really change the issue of supply and demand either unless the dps numbers you can cram in are much, much higher.

That being said, I'd rather address the issue of leveling itself. If dungeons are the only 'quick' way to level, then we'd need to find other solutions that don't involve dungeons. Or, something more freeform that a group of 4 can do that doesn't require the typical 1/1/2 setup to do. The world is a very large place, and they can always find ways to do more with it.

But dungeons are not the only fast way to level...I don't even touch dungeons half the time when leveling another dps job.

[cjbeagle]

That's more or less what I'm highlighting here. It doesn't change the supply vs demand.

It does though - if the group comp was 1/1/3 that increases the demand for dps by 50% - every queue pop grabs an additional dps, which means less dps in queue which means lower queue times.

Regardless, your core point is that other methods should be just as viable as dungeon spam, and you're right.

[pympcakes]

That's more or less what I'm highlighting here. It doesn't change the supply vs demand

The demand is for dungeon DPS slots. Going from 2 to 3 would increase the supply by 50%. That other factors may limit the impact of this change does not negate that this would increase supply by 50%.

Consider an extreme where it takes 1,000,000 DPS players per 1 tank and 1 healer. Supply would far outstrip demand.