In a game with E8S why is SE banning people with suggestive Adventurer Plates?

[Vryn]

Nudity is not sexual

But i do find it funny how people are so perverted, that nudity=sexual no matter what it is.

Yeah you angels surely don't do suggestive poses with 2B tights and other panties and shove your butt/Crotch into the camera.
Or do suggestive poses that are very clear to anybody with eyes.



I don't think most people are offended by it, some just don't want to see it and its completely fair for them to not want to see "pretend sexual acts".

In some parts of the world, nudity is seen as purity. Not as sexual by nature.

Nudity is inherently sexual. The differences are those cultures don't see sex as being a dirty act but as the creation of something new.

I don't know how many people are offended by it but I can imagine a fair few don't want to see the plate but then again you see the glamour before you see the plate.

However, the development team has gotten themselves into this mess and has created a dynamic where they now have to put more of a gun to players' heads and threaten them not to use systems the way they want. The minute you start enforcing things in a speculative mannor is the minute trust degrades and I don't know anyone who trusts people who do anything by decree.

[Jason_Ashford]

Access to the forum is not a privilege. It doesn't come from the state. I paid for access to the forum as it's part of the product offering of the game. No one has abused it. You are putting your standards on something. Just because they have given their answer on the subject doesn't mean people should accept it since they pay for the product, nor does it not mean that they shouldn't refine their feedback on the said issues.

Also, the subject has changed as they have added something new which we are discussing.

The forum isn't your social media group its to streamline feedback, and the only person who can tell me if I'm wasting my time is me. I get it you don't like other people's opinions on subjects but it doesn't matter what you like. You are just here to tell people not to bother rather than engage with them.

it IS a privilege, just like playing the game is. You are given access to play, so long as you toe the line. You aren't owed anything, and attempting to abuse your privilege will result in a ban from the game. It really can't be any simpler than that.

The subject has *not* changed. sexually explicit portraits fall under the umbrella of content that is considered against the rules in the ToS.

I do engage with people when they aren't slamming their heads against a wall that isn't going to move.

I get it you don't like other people's opinions on subjects but it doesn't matter what you like.

Oh the irony.

[Cheremia]

Nudity is inherently sexual. The differences are those cultures don't see sex as being a dirty act but as the creation of something new.

I don't know how many people are offended by it but I can imagine a fair few don't want to see the plate but then again you see the glamour before you see the plate.

However, the development team has gotten themselves into this mess and has created a dynamic where they now have to put more of a gun to players' heads and threaten them not to use systems the way they want. The minute you start enforcing things is the minute trust degrades and I don't know anyone who trusts people who do anything by decree.

That is also true. But not always, it really depends on the context of nudity tbh.
I watched Sailor Moon as a kid and Usagi was literally naked for the last fight to symbolize purity (and she also created something new in a way so... hmm). And i can tell you that it was absolutely not meant to be sexual.
But i'm not even here to argue honestly.

But for the adventure plates themself, the glamour you put on it doesnt reflect what you wear. My adventure plate has my fave clown outfit while i wear something else right now.
That's only for pvp the case. Where it breaks if you change your glam lmao

I'm just saying that there's a big difference about Rynes outfit and the stuff portrayed in some plates. Because that's just how it is at the end of the day.
It's a bit silly to compare the two if the context is pretty different and what's being suggested by the plates is definitely NOT the same as what Ryne is supposed to symbolize i guess.

That's all i wanted to get out because "awoogaing" at anything that shows any amount of skin is sort of a you problem.... nothing wrong with being a pervert tho lol
But context and intention DOES indeed also matter.

At least that's my stance on it.

[Vryn]

it IS a privilege, just like playing the game is. You are given access to play, so long as you toe the line. You aren't owed anything, and attempting to abuse your privilege will result in a ban from the game. It really can't be any simpler than that.

The subject has *not* changed. sexually explicit portraits fall under the umbrella of content that is considered against the rules in the ToS.

I do engage with people when they aren't slamming their heads against a wall that isn't going to move.



Oh the irony.

It's not ironic. Yes, your opinion on my point being a waste of time doesn't matter. Your opinion on the subject matter does. I get you don't like my opinion but I will reiterate the only one who can say it's a waste of time is me.

The dynamic in which the ToS has changed they have added exploitable systems that have changed the dynamic. This is why I put this:

No one is saying disrespect the rules but you can petition for a change and streamline the feedback. Like I said we want to have a conversation where we can maximise the player protections of the ToS while allowing for maximum player freedoms. However, the development team is creating highly exploitable systems which are changing the dynamic in which the ToS was written, therefore we have to ask if the ToS still fit for its purpose, what benefits it brings to us as customers, and if it's it damaging the integrity of the game. Were the systems in question released in the right condition because now we have more issues than before? We also have to ask are some of the terms and conditions are appropriate for paying customers and does it goes too far in some cases. I signed up for the ToS in ARR and they were very different and a lot laxer.

You don't argue the point you just try to have gotcha moments. Paying to have access to something is not a privilege it's a service and if the company wants to refuse service they can but as long as you are acting within the terms of the agreement you can petition them and since you are a paying customer you have every right to and Square Enix as the provider of that service has a duty of care and responsibility to give you systems and tools that don't allow you to break ToS and if they do is their ToS fit for purpose?

[Vryn]

That is also true. But not always, it really depends on the context of nudity tbh.
I watched Sailor Moon as a kid and Usagi was literally naked for the last fight to symbolize purity (and she also created something new in a way so... hmm). And i can tell you that it was absolutely not meant to be sexual.
But i'm not even here to argue honestly.

But for the adventure plates themself, the glamour you put on it doesnt reflect what you wear. My adventure plate has my fave clown outfit while i wear something else right now.
That's only for pvp the case. Where it breaks if you change your glam lmao

I'm just saying that there's a big difference about Rynes outfit and the stuff portrayed in some plates. Because that's just how it is at the end of the day.
It's a bit silly to compare the two if the context is pretty different and what's being suggested by the plates is definitely NOT the same as what Ryne is supposed to symbolize i guess.

That's all i wanted to get out because "awoogaing" at anything that shows any amount of skin is sort of a you problem.... nothing wrong with being a pervert tho lol
But context and intention DOES indeed also matter.

At least that's my stance on it.

Well, life is inherently sexual, but there is a scale to how you show that and what could be considered socially acceptable. Just because it's a pure act doesn't mean people necessarily want to see it as even the purest act can be revolting to a degree, such as the transformation from a caterpillar into a Butterfly and a magnificent display, but rather gross. Usually, when something transforms, it's sacrificing itself for something new, it's being reborn, and the old version dies. You can see this with Shadowbringer's transformation from human to sineater.

The system isn't that good, it's not that streamlined, and it is highly exploitable. It makes me wonder if they released too much content and it wasn't appropriately playtested because there have been many issues with systems in 6.1.

Also, I would add that the game has shown more sex and sexual imagery than most. They have added a stripper pole, casting couches, and studio lamps. They have allowed in-game brothels and put on sexually suggestive clothes. They have a market that breaks their own ToS, and they have been pandering to them for a long time, so it's no wonder they have these issues. It's their fault. If they didn't want people to break the ToS in such a manner, do not design the systems to do it. The company has a responsibility not to give players the tools to incriminate themselves and if they have then they need to accept it or change it.

Quite correct, there isn't anything wrong with being a pervert; these people will be. They just don't want to see you doing it.

[Jason_Ashford]

It's not ironic. Yes, your opinion on my point being a waste of time doesn't matter. Your opinion on the subject matter does. I get you don't like my opinion but I will reiterate the only one who can say it's a waste of time is me.

The dynamic in which the ToS has changed they have added exploitable systems that have changed the dynamic. This is why I put this:

No one is saying disrespect the rules but you can petition for a change and streamline the feedback. Like I said we want to have a conversation where we can maximise the player protections of the ToS while allowing for maximum player freedoms. However, the development team is creating highly exploitable systems which are changing the dynamic in which the ToS was written, therefore we have to ask if the ToS still fit for its purpose, what benefits it brings to us as customers, and if it's it damaging the integrity of the game. Were the systems in question released in the right condition because now we have more issues than before? We also have to ask are some of the terms and conditions are appropriate for paying customers and does it goes too far in some cases. I signed up for the ToS in ARR and they were very different and a lot laxer.

You don't argue the point you just try to have gotcha moments. Paying to have access to something is not a privilege it's a service and if the company wants to refuse service they can but as long as you are acting within the terms of the agreement you can petition them and since you are a paying customer you have every right to.

The dynamic has not changed whatsoever. There is a clear difference between a portrait of a bikini clad female character, and a female character deliberately posing themselves and the camera in such a way that suggests that they are committing a sexual act. the former is accepted, the latter is against the ToS and is a bannable offense. Just because the new portrait system can be manipulated so it looks like you are doing something lewd, does not mean they have suddenly started allowing that type of behavior. They have been very clear that those types of portraits are unacceptable and will be dealt with accordingly.

No amount of complaining, sorry "feedback" will get them to change their minds on the matter because it has been an established rule since the game added glamours.

[Vryn]

The dynamic has not changed whatsoever. There is a clear difference between a portrait of a bikini clad female character, and a female character deliberately posing themselves and the camera in such a way that suggests that they are committing a sexual act. the former is accepted, the latter is against the ToS and is a bannable offense. Just because the new portrait system can be manipulated so it looks like you are doing something lewd, does not mean they have suddenly started allowing that type of behavior. They have been very clear that those types of portraits are unacceptable and will be dealt with accordingly.

No amount of complaining, sorry "feedback" will get them to change their minds on the matter because it has been an established rule since the game added glamours.

Ok, it won't change anything but Im still allowed to give it and if you don't like that too bad. The dynamic has changed the company has given you systems and objects which compromise the ToS. Ranging from Stripper poles, housing i.e in-game brothels, casting couches, studio lights etc and now suggestive photos, actual in game brothels. Neir is an 18+ game yet it's integrated in a massive part of the game.

The company is actively getting you to pay for a product and sign up to the ToS which doesn't reflect the nature of the product. So yes the dynamic of the game has changed, it wasn't this way in ARR.

I get it you may not like the opinion but its my opinion and I wont stop giving the feedback no matter how much you complain about my feedback.

[Jason_Ashford]

Ok, it won't change anything but Im still allowed to give it and if you don't like that too bad. The dynamic has changed the company has given you systems and objects which compromise the ToS. Ranging from Stripper poles, housing i.e in-game brothels, casting couches, studio lights etc and now suggestive photos, actual in game brothels. Neir is an 18+ game yet it's integrated in a massive part of the game.

The company is actively getting you to pay for a product and sign up to the ToS which doesn't reflect the nature of the product. So yes the dynamic of the game has changed, it wasn't this way in ARR.

I get it you may not like the opinion but its my opinion and I wont stop giving the feedback no matter how much you complain about my feedback.

no it hasn't. They game is rated Pegi 16+ for a reason. The game has suggestive themes within it, but those themes, despite what you may think, do not cross the border into straight up pornographic content. They do not go into explicit details when handling those subjects. They are very upfront about things pushing beyond sexually suggestive being against the rules, and that isn't going to change. They would need to have a Pegi 18+ rating to allow that, and considering that the focus of this game is not porn, that isn't going to be happening.

[Vryn]

no it hasn't. They game is rated Pegi 16+ for a reason. The game has suggestive themes within it, but those themes, despite what you may think, do not cross the border into straight up pornographic content. They do not go into explicit details when handling those subjects. They are very upfront about things pushing beyond sexually suggestive being against the rules, and that isn't going to change. They would need to have a Pegi 18+ rating to allow that, and considering that the focus of this game is not porn, that isn't going to be happening.

Yes, they would need to change it to 18+ and the age rating is not reflective of that which is in the game. A stripper pole is quite explicit, a borthel is quite explicit, and 2b's arse and clothes are explicit, and so are Gaias's bimbo lips & clothes. No other character in the game has those. The systems do not reflect the nature of the ToS. That is a fact, and it's the company's responsibility not to give customers the ability to compromise their subscription with their poorly designed systems. If so, it's on them to change the systems or change the rating. The only thing in ARR which was questionable was the gold Saucer with Play Bunny Girls and now you have Viera and Furries. Even Lalafells to anyone who doesn't play the game looks like Pedo bait.

I would have allowed a 16 yr old to play this game in ARR I wouldn't now. The dynamic changed as the game got more complex and catered to an 18+ audience.

I will also add that the age rating for ARR was 13 and now its 16+ I wonder what it will be next. hmmmm

[Jason_Ashford]

Yes, they would need to change it to 18+ and the age rating is not reflective of that which is in the game. A stripper pole is quite explicit, a borthel is quite explicit, and 2b's arse and clothes are explicit, and so are Gaias's bimbo lips & clothes. No other character in the game has those. The systems do not reflect the nature of the ToS. That is a fact, and it's the company's responsibility not to give customers the ability to compromise their subscription with their poorly designed systems. If so, it's on them to change the systems or change the rating. The only thing in ARR which was questionable was the gold Saucer with Bunny Girls even Lalafells to anyone who doesn't play the game looks like Pedo bait.

I would have allowed a 16 yr old to play this game in ARR I wouldn't now. The dynamic changed as the game got more complex and catered to an 18+ audience.

suggestive themes is a broad umbrella to catch those. So long as they don't jump into things that explicitly depict sex or nudity then it's generally okay. And again, since this doesn't seem to be sticking, just because you can manipulate the portrait system into a sexually explicit pose, does not mean that it is accepted, or wanted. The system is not poorly designed, it was built so that people could make creative and interesting adventurer plates. not ones where you have a miqote female seemingly performing sexual acts on someone off screen.