In a game with E8S why is SE banning people with suggestive Adventurer Plates?

[Jason_Ashford]

I did it above, and you just proved the point. Good luck trying to rationalise censorship and authoritarian control that destroys the social fabric and quality of the game. Yoshi P himself said an MMO is like running a country, and how many successful Dictatorships do you see where the people are living happy lives?

Lmfao i snorted at "censorship and authoritarian control" because you're mad because you cant have a adventurer plate of your character making lewd gestures. it is literally in the ToS that making sexually suggestive poses is against the rules and a bannable offense. No one is going to feel sorry for you when you get banned because you want a picture of your character with flesh colored clothing to suggest nudity, or posing in such a way that suggests a sexual act.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but this is a game, owned by Square Enix, and as such, they are allowed to dictate what is and is not allowed in their game. That is not "censorship" or "a violation of my civil liberties". They have every right to set and enforce rules as they see fit and nobody cares if you disagree because it's not your game, nor your company, so you have no say.

[Vryn]

Lmfao i snorted at "censorship and authoritarian control" because you're mad because you cant have a adventurer plate of your character making lewd gestures. it is literally in the ToS that making sexually suggestive poses is against the rules and a bannable offense. No one is going to feel sorry for you when you get banned because you want a picture of your character with flesh colored clothing to suggest nudity, or posing in such a way that suggests a sexual act.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but this is a game, owned by Square Enix, and as such, they are allowed to dictate what is and is not allowed in their game. That is not "censorship" or "a violation of my civil liberties". They have every right to set and enforce rules as they see fit and nobody cares if you disagree because it's not your game, nor your company, so you have no say.

Would you like to see my adventurer plate because it will be more conservative than yours? Arguing for the freedom of myself and others does not mean I will do it. I can have a distasteful reaction to the principle and governance of systems. I didn't ask you to feel sorry for me, and I don't care about your pity.

The private organisation argument is not an argument. Private organisations are held to the standards of their customers, and their fiduciary duty is to the customer I am one of those. So I asked for a change or argument on one side. I don't expect it to happen, but it needs to be considered since I am one funding capital into the product just as you are.

If we had no say, then there would be no point in the forums, and there is merit in listening to the back and forth of your customer base and taking a proportionate response to the situation a portion may not be satisfied with, mainly if its secondary and tertiary effects that ripple through the community.

I get it you don't like my choice of words or tone, but they are my words and tone. So take it for what you will, if you want to have a cynical take do it.

[Jason_Ashford]

Would you like to see my adventurer plate because it will be more conservative than yours? Arguing for the freedom of myself and others does not mean I will do it. I can have a distasteful reaction to the principle and governance of systems. I didn't ask you to feel sorry for me, and I don't care about your pity.

The private organisation argument is not an argument. Private organisations are held to the standards of their customers, and their fiduciary duty is to the customer I am one of those. So I asked for a change or argument on one side. I don't expect it to happen, but it needs to be considered since I am one funding capital into the product just as you are.

If we had no say, then there would be no point in the forums, and there is merit in listening to the back and forth of your customer base and taking a proportionate response to the situation a portion may not be satisfied with, mainly if its secondary and tertiary effects that ripple through the community.

I get it you don't like my choice of words or tone, but they are my words and tone. So take it for what you will, if you want to have a cynical take do it.

Your entire argument revolves around being allowed to make sexually explicit portraits "because i can" and not factoring in that when you made an account and signed up for the game you agreed to follow their terms of service, or risk being banned. Their ToS is quite clear that sexually explicit content is unacceptable and will result in a termination of your service account. You have no right to complain about the rules because you agreed to follow them when you started.

If we had no say, then there would be no point in the forums

The forums are not here so you can debate with the developers on why you should be allowed to have sexually explicit adventurer plates and portraits, nor are they here so you can whine about how a rule is suddenly unfair because it affects you now. While the forums are here so you can give feedback or make suggestions, they don't have to give you the time of day, much less make massive changes to their ToS because a small minority of people went and got themselves banned for pictures of their character performing sexual acts, or feigning nudity using skimpy outfits dyed in flesh colors.

[Vryn]

This is what my entire argument revolves around.

You don't know what the devs are thinking because you are not a developer on the FF14 team. Just because the ToS in its current state may not allow for something does not mean anything when it comes to creating solutions that impact the everyday user experience for the majority of the game and the protection of some. Their stance has always been we have created a highly exploitable system. If you do things we don't like by maximising our system, we will ban you, which doesn't solve the issue and leads to a vague ToS, which can be highly criticised. You are like a person who reads the bible and starts to call themselves a prophet who knows the will of God.

If a profanity filter is there, it's meant to protect people who want to swear and those who don't. It's not the wrong thing to do, and it's a measured response to an issue. More solutions and options for the protection of players are always reasonable in every system because when it comes to fixing a problem with a system, it takes many forms, not just one magic bandage.

"I can" isn't the reason. The reason is that everyone will, and yes, that means even people who don't like to swear and you. They would have to ban the entire community for cursing and profanity at one point in the game life cycle. This doesn't remove the behaviour because you can't. Instead, it drives it underground and more people away from the game, and no, you are not the one who gets to decide if someone is suitable to play the game.

Your attitude creates a world of lazy development and highly exploitable systems, which lead to lazy solutions that damage the overall user experience rather than help. An excellent example of this is the chat function in crystal conflict. The chat function in CC does have many advantages over a normal chat function, such as a faster response time, especially for players who may not have a keyboard or are on a PlayStation or have social anxiety issues. All are good things when increasing the conversation within the game and deepening the community's social fabric. However, it is a vastly inferior system for players on the keyboard, which is also a large portion of the community. We found ourselves creating overly proportional punishments for the fear that someone could be seen to be mean or highly passive-aggressive rather than creating solutions that target why people might be mean or highly passive-aggressive.

For example:
The reason people are highly passive-aggressive in CC is that the gameplay model lends itself well to repeat losses, and yes, while the mode may be quick if you lose 4-10 times, that doesn't feel very good. Also, you rely on absolute strangers because you cannot enter with your friend(s), which should always be encouraged in an MMORPG and people of your skill level. Then there is class balance in CC, the disparity between good and bad classes is enormous, and the current patch notes do not address many of the game's major flaws. Yes, while the developers may have a vision, that vision does not matter as long as it leads to an unsatisfactory gaming experience, i.e. the polymorph of a white mage not being able to be dispelled. Many of the issues with class balance are mechanical and do not revolve around potency buffs or debuffs. Some need rework because they are of unsatisfactory quality compared to other classes. Next to being the reward structure of the model itself, it's barren. The only good rewards are at the end of the season pass, making players feel like they need to play, making the system have more FOMO for cosmetic rewards. Even though you may be able to collect it later on, it needs to have more prizes and consistent distribution to elevate the feel of a loss. They also need to allow for more rewarding rewards. After all, that will lessen the feeling of a loss because many people don't care about their AP. The AP serves no practical function other than to tell random strangers who you are.

The system makes players feel like they are wasting their time with people they don't know or don't care about the match, which is awful if you do, and your reward structure is being handicapped by these people, which is worse than someone being toxic in chat by spamming good game three times. They need to allow for a casual queue for more than one person so you can play with your friends. They also need to enable people to talk with a keyboard because removing the ability for people to do so in the fear that they could be mean instantly makes people want to be mean because they have just lost a vital component of communication. All this will do is lead to players joining matches and leaving because they can do other things with that 30 minutes than waste 4-5 with you. After all, the team doesn't have a tank/ healer, or you are deficient in that person's eyes.

Censorship from things others may not want or don't like to hear is never a solution to an issue. More speech and options for customising the game for your own player experience to maximise your enjoyment is always the better option. Yes, that requires a lot more work than a ban hammer but leads to a better game because the cost of shutting down innocent players or players who may just be having a bad day is far worse to the game's overall health than shutting down the 5% of people who might use it to troll you.

If they are trolling you, then block them. You have the tools to do so. Though I think you don't want this in-game, you don't want to take personal responsibility for your prudishness and use them.

Your entire argument revolves around being allowed to make sexually explicit portraits "because i can" and not factoring in that when you made an account and signed up for the game you agreed to follow their terms of service, or risk being banned. Their ToS is quite clear that sexually explicit content is unacceptable and will result in a termination of your service account. You have no right to complain about the rules because you agreed to follow them when you started.



The forums are not here to debate with the developers on why you should be allowed to have sexually explicit adventurer plates and portraits, nor are they here so you can whine about how a rule is suddenly unfair because it affects you now. While the forums are here so you can give feedback or make suggestions, they don't have to give you the time of day, much less make massive changes to their ToS because a small minority of people went and got themselves banned for pictures of their character performing sexual acts, or feigning nudity using skimpy outfits dyed in flesh colors.

As a paying customer yes you do have a right to complain and the forum is so we can provide feedback and debate with one another to refine said feedback I didn't know you worked for Square Enix. If you want to target my argument do so above without strawmaning or adding your perceived bias.

I could also add this point as well.

We are having this conversation now, and you've mischaracterised the conversation. First, the talk is about the rules in place and are they proportionate to the situation as a response. Then there is the point of developers creating issues that need to be solved and releasing systems too early. Thirdly, community cohesion is argued because this is a more significant issue than adventurer plates.

No one is saying you have a secret conflict or plan. That's you being hyperbolic and just saying the rules are the rules doesn't do anything because the ToS may not be fit for purpose and may negatively affect the health of the game, which is argued regularly. You have the right to disagree with them as a paying customer and a stakeholder in the product. Your argument, however, brings nothing to the conversation, and if you bring nothing to the conversation, why are you here? Please do have a conflict of interest so we can discuss that conflict and how it reacts to these issues, as that is what we are meant to do on the forums.

You can argue that the ToS is fit for purpose, but that would require an in-depth review by you of the ToS or at least bringing up surface level benefits of the ToS, but you don't even try so again. So my question is, why are you here?

The point of this conversation, after all, is trying to maximise the benefits of the ToS in regards to game systems and social mechanisms to allow for greater freedom of expression in the player base, even though you may personally disagree or not want to see it.

Actually, argue the points instead of trying to insult because I would just give you back my response from earlier.

Would you like to see my adventurer plate because it will be more conservative than yours? Arguing for the freedom of myself and others does not mean I will do it. I can have a distasteful reaction to the principle and governance of systems. I didn't ask you to feel sorry for me, and I don't care about your pity.

The private organisation argument is not an argument. Private organisations are held to the standards of their customers, and their fiduciary duty is to the customer I am one of those. So I asked for a change or argument on one side. I don't expect it to happen, but it needs to be considered since I am one funding capital into the product just as you are.

If we had no say, then there would be no point in the forums, and there is merit in listening to the back and forth of your customer base and taking a proportionate response to the situation a portion may not be satisfied with, mainly if its secondary and tertiary effects that ripple through the community.

I get it you don't like my choice of words or tone, but they are my words and tone. So take it for what you will, if you want to have a cynical take do it.

[TheGrimace]

lol imagine getting offended by a suggestive image in Final Fantasy XIV lmao

[Jason_Ashford]

This is what my entire argument revolves around.






As a paying customer yes you do have a right to complain and the forum is so we can provide feedback and debate with one another to refine said feedback. If you want to target my argument do so above without strawmaning or adding your perceived bias.

As a paying customer you aren't owed anything beyond access to the game. Access to the forum is a privilege, not a right, and abusing that right will only result in having it revoked. They have given their answer on the subject, sexually explicit content is not acceptable under any circumstance, and no amount of complaining on the forums is going to change that. You are wasting your time and risking your forum access over something that had been decided long before Adventurer plates and portraits were a thing.

You can disagree with it until you're blue in the face, but it won't change anything, because they don't owe you anything beyond what you've already been given

[Vryn]

As a paying customer you aren't owed anything beyond access to the game. Access to the forum is a privilege, not a right, and abusing that right will only result in having it revoked. They have given their answer on the subject, sexually explicit content is not acceptable under any circumstance, and no amount of complaining on the forums is going to change that. You are wasting your time and risking your forum access over something that had been decided long before Adventurer plates and portraits were a thing

Access to the forum is not a privilege. It doesn't come from the state. I paid for access to the forum as it's part of the product offering of the game. No one has abused it. You are putting your standards on something. Just because they have given their answer on the subject doesn't mean people should accept it since they pay for the product, nor does it not mean that they shouldn't refine their feedback on the said issues.

Also, the subject has changed as they have added something new which we are discussing.

The forum isn't your social media group its to streamline feedback, and the only person who can tell me if I'm wasting my time is me. I get it you don't like other people's opinions on subjects but it doesn't matter what you like. You are just here to tell people not to bother rather than engage with them.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

Access to the forum is not a privilege. It doesn't come from the state. I paid for access to the forum as it's part of the product offering of the game. No one has abused it. You are putting your standards on something. Just because they have given their answer on the subject doesn't mean people should accept it since they pay for the product, nor does it not mean that they shouldn't refine their feedback on the said issues.

The forum isn't your social media group its to streamline feedback, and the only person who can tell me if I'm wasting my time is me. I get it you don't like other people's opinions on subjects but it doesn't matter what you like. You are just here to tell people not to bother rather than engage with them.

If you disagree with the ToS because you can't do something, just make a change of game where it's allowed. Simple as that.

And if you don't want to respect the rules, they can ban you. It's just like going to the public swimming pool, you pay to have access, but if you don't respect the rule there, you get kick out of the place. It's pretty much the same here. Either you respect the rules indicated with the ToS you agreed with when you register, or just quit.

[Cheremia]

Nudity is not sexual

But i do find it funny how people are so perverted, that nudity=sexual no matter what it is.

Yeah you angels surely don't do suggestive poses with 2B tights and other panties and shove your butt/Crotch into the camera.
Or do suggestive poses that are very clear to anybody with eyes.

lol imagine getting offended by a suggestive image in Final Fantasy XIV lmao

I don't think most people are offended by it, some just don't want to see it and its completely fair for them to not want to see "pretend sexual acts".

In some parts of the world, nudity is seen as purity. Not as sexual by nature.

[Vryn]

If you disagree with the ToS because you can't do something, just make a change of game where it's allowed. Simple as that.

And if you don't want to respect the rules, they can ban you. It's just like going to the public swimming pool, you pay to have access, but if you don't respect the rule there, you get kick out of the place. It's pretty much the same here. Either you respect the rules indicated with the ToS you agreed with when you register, or just quit.

No one is saying disrespect the rules but you can petition for a change and streamline the feedback. Like I said we want to have a conversation where we can maximise the player protections of the ToS while allowing for maximum player freedoms. However, the development team is creating highly exploitable systems which are changing the dynamic in which the ToS was written, therefore we have to ask if the ToS still fits its purpose, what benefits it brings to us as customers, and if it's it damaging the integrity of the game. Were the systems in question released in the right condition because now we have more issues than before? We also have to ask are some of the terms and conditions are appropriate for paying customers and does it goes too far in some cases. I signed up to the ToS in ARR and they were very different and a lot laxer.

We have the right to converse about these issues. No one here has broken ToS and just saying quit doesn't work either because then you certainly don't have right to give feedback because you are not a customer.