An extensive feedback on 6.1 Samurai changes

[Zeretus]

In this thread I want to compile my thoughts and impressions on 6.1 samurai adjustments after having experience with them doing end-game and more casual content for over 3 weeks.

Let's first go over the introduced changes as well as examine existing problems that those changes are trying to address. Overall we can group them up into 4 different categories:

1. Changes addressing crit variance
2. Changes addressing action bloat and job busyness
3. Potencies adjustments to account for aforementioned changes
4. Quality of Life changes

Evidently, the two major points those adjustments are trying to address are the dps fluctuation and action bloat. While I can agree that those indeed are valid concerns it's hard for me to say that I feel content with the way they were addressed. So let's discuss these problems more thoroughly.

DPS fluctuation
Samurai design revolves around working towards heavy hitting high potency skills, building up resources such as sen points, combo buffs, kenki generation and so on to then execute powerful Iaijutsu, rewarding your previous efforts. With that in mind we naturally end up in the situation where the major bulk of job's damage is aggregated around a handful of skills, which wouldn't be the problem in itself had we not introduce the concept of random critical hits, increasing the damage of those abilities by a portion of already large potency. Because of that samurai dps is a subject to rather noticeable random fluctuation without any regard for player's agency and performance. Which even contrasts with jobs that rely on random procs since a player still have to capitalise on them and utilise at a proper time.

From how I look at it, this problem can be approached from 2 angles. First is redistributing potencies more equally across all abilities, sacrificing a portion of the job's core identity in the process. Second is excluding critical hits from the equation, or rather making them guaranteed (which in essence are one and the same). And with how it is presented I'm actually in favour of the second approach although with some additions. The third option would be to leave that idea entirely until more fortunate circumstances, which in light of what other options entail is a genuinely serious consideration.

[Zeretus]

So let's look at what was implemented in the patch 6.1 as a solution to that issue. Midare Setsugekka and Ogi Namikiri, as well as their Kaeshi counterparts, are now guaranteed to land a critical hit. Again, not a bad thing on its own and is rather close to my take on it as well, however the glaring problem now is that major samurai skills receive no benefit whatsoever from party buffs that increase critical hit chance of which there is a noticeable amount. The undermining of job synergy in my opinion is a far greater concern, one that in this case can be resolved by adjusting buffs to not only give crit chance but increase critical damage as well, which can be a big undertaking balance wise. So unless you are willing to commit to the idea of adjusting party buffs, I believe that the introduction of guaranteed crits and the concern over crit variance should wait.

Action bloat
Over the years Samurai has accumulated a vast amount of actions, on the release of the Endwalker sitting at 33 actively used buttons which really starts pushing the comfortable threshold if we consider future additions and development. I myself have encountered a number of players' concerns over this topic, so I'd say an attempt at tackling this issue is a welcome direction.

By now the community has come and provided many suggestions on how this problem may be resolved, so I decided to share my feedback on some of them:

The first one is combining into a single action Senei and Guren as well as Shoha and Shoha II with AoE damage drop-off. Now I can see the possible reluctance of the developers to not remove some part of decision making of choosing an optimal version for a specific encounter. That being said, in high-end content we are rarely presented with situations where this choice can be made and in casual content this choice rarely matters to begin with, so I'd say this adjustment is a worthwhile consideration.

Second one is combining Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri since one cannot be executed without the other. On top of that this plays nicely into the fantasy of Ikishoten being the empowering move before unleashing Ogi instead of a boring 50 resource generation button. However there might be an issue of Ikishoten being an ability and Ogi Namikiri being a weaponskill. Another concern might be the unintentional queueing of used actions due to button spamming causing players to be specifically careful about using it which creates unnecessary friction. So I guess it's up to devs to decide what is more prevalent.

Same concerns go for combining Iaijutsu and Tsubame Gaeshi. While generally you would always want to use Kaeshi Namikiri right after executing Ogi, that is not the case with Tsubame Gaeshi. Additional testing required to establish whether gcd time is enough to not create the problem of unintentional queueing. With that concern out of the way, this is a decent option to consider.

[Zeretus]

The last prominent suggestion I've noticed is combining all combos into separate buttons. I am strongly against this idea. The use of 3 melee combos is at the foundation of the job's identity, changing that will create a negative shock reaction to its feel. On top of that it removes the fundamental mechanic of a proper decision making happening on a button to button basis. That will cause Samurai to be much less engaging and less involved even though it is a simple mechanic to deal with at its core. This also should not be introduced as an option available that you can toggle on and off since it blatantly provides more efficiency and leaves no room for error.

With that out of the way let's move on to the actual adjustments of 6.1 that address this concern. I believe I should mention first the information I heard about these changes aimed not so much at the action bloat but at job's busyness during burst windows. And to be fair I completely fail to understand this reasoning if that is true. As things stood Samurai rarely had to double weave during bursts even at an optimal level of play or at least was much more lenient at that compared to some other jobs in the game. But even if that was the case the changes entirely fail to address this concern. So let's finally look at the elephant in the room, the removal of Hissatsu: Kaiten.

I tried to come up with some positives brought with this change but I really fail to see any. All it achieved in practice was replacing one ogcd button press with another, using Shinten now instead, while sacrificing a portion of decision making, resource management and job essence. The change feels especially painful now due to the fact how often you had to use it during the course of an encounter, but even in the long term there aren't any significant benefits that are worth this price. The mechanic should not be complicated or difficult for it to be meaningful. Yes, it was just an ability that you always had to press before using Iaijutsu. Yes, it was not complicated in its essence. But it wasn't redundant. It always kept your mind occupied ever so slightly, it created a room for error and satisfaction of mastery, it had a very pleasing aesthetic. So I'm strongly in favour of reverting this change and bringing Kaiten back into the game.

[Zeretus]

Potencies adjustments
After mechanical changes to the job the adjustment of abilities potencies are to be expected but this time I have a concern that these adjustments went overboard. I'd ask you to recall me theorising over possible solutions to dps fluctuation. Redistribution of potencies or guaranteed crits. Turns out the decision has been made, it seems, to incorporate both at the same time along with their respective problems. Not only is the redistribution of potencies away from your heavy hitting skills is harmful to the feel and identity of the job, it also makes those actions much less significant. Which is evident by the emergence of viable rotations that largely allow you to ignore those skills completely outside of burst windows. Which is a stange treatment of the skill that takes 8 gcds to build up towards.
https://youtu.be/tXDHt0ueL4E

Quality of Life changes
My impression is overall positive outside of a single concern.
The Third Eye extended duration is a welcome change, one that I'd argue addresses job's busyness during bursts better than any other. it felt especially justified with mechanics such as delayed raidwide damage of Elegeia Unforgotten in the latest new extreme trial.

Ranged weaponskills no longer consuming a charge of Meikyo Shisui is also a very positive change that allows you to keep attacking the target when a forced melee downtime happens inside a burst window. The one example off the top of my head would be a certain Pinax mechanic pattern in Asphodelos: The Fourth Circle Savage.

[Zeretus]

Tenka Goken AoE change is a tricky one for me. At the first glance the change seems overall positive, with now all 4 AoE weaponskills streamlined to function the same way. The addition in the Endwalker that transforms Fuga conal targeted AoE into Fuka radial one at lvl 86 was a great change in my impression after all. However this is one of the adjustments that after playing with it for 3 weeks I changed my impression on and here's why. Tenka Goken unlike every other AoE weaponskill has a casting time. Radial AoE requires you to stand in the middle of the enemy pack in order to hit every target. That puts you in an unsafe position considering casting time and enemies point blank attacks, causing you to either get hit or miss a number of targets. The first Endwalker iteration of samurai AoE felt very satisfying with them having to keep a dance in and out of the enemy group with instant and casted skills. It feels to me that the change was prompted by the original feedback on EW changes that was more theory based, because in discussions brought up people seemed to heavily underestimate the time you have to adjust position between radial and conal aoe. As a joke I can also add the point about a funny absurdity of Gokken having now more than 5 blades

This is a scope of 6.1 Samurai changes and that is my feedback after having some experience with it. We've yet to receive a post from the dev team about the 6.1 balance changes and reasonings behind them which I look forward to. But as a general impression I feel that the big part of those changes should be reevaluated and to some extent reverted back. In my opinion the Endwalker Samurai design initially started off very strong despite any early concerns so I have the trust the dev team will manage to deliver in the future.

[Quor]

Very nice feedback OP. Since you're new to the forums let me explain a quirk; you can extend past the 3k character limit in a post by removing all the text past 3k, posting the thread or post, and then editing the removed text back in after the fact. Yes, it's weird. Forums have been like this since inception. But it lets you get around the 3k character limit with a simple cut-and-paste.

I haven't seen any honest assessment of SAM that ends up liking how it is in the current state. SE took a perfectly enjoyable job that functioned well and had high player satisfaction and destroyed it for reasons that were vague and constantly changing, not to mention easily solved via other means.

[Zeretus]

Appreciate the advice, will do that in the future.

Yeah, from my impression no samurai player benefits from those changes both casual or hardcore. It is definitely a step backwards overall in my opinion from the original state of the job at EW release. Like I mentioned before, it partially feels like a rushed reaction to the initial EW feedback in regards such as ability bloat (2 new actions introduced), dps fluctuation (Ogi escalating the situation), busyness (again, introducing Ogi as a big casted cd, 2 charges of Tsubame) and so on that was lacking the foundation of experience with the new state of the job.

[CelestiCer]

In this thread I want to compile my thoughts and impressions on 6.1 samurai adjustments after having experience with them doing end-game and more casual content for over 3 weeks.
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Very in-depth feedback. I agree with a lot of what you stated.

Kaiten removal
Fixed " Nothing " and replaced with " Nothing ". Nothing positive to be found gameplay wise, we only were given potencies in return and lowering skill-ceiling/expression/floor.

The Button Bloat issue
I have difficulties even finding the Button Bloat issue? unless they need space for " something " of which that something only Square knows. But as many have stated different solutions, mine are:

• Ikishoten turns into Ogi Namikiri
• Guren/Senei Attacks fused, 1st target struck with line AoE fall off damage
• Shoha/Shoha II fused into a Cone AoE, 1st target struck with fall off damage

The Action Bloat issue
I don't want to compromise losing Kaiten. Or anything... but, if they sourly need space? turning Kaiten into a Potency/Crit/Auto-Crit buff applying to all Iaijutsu casts and Ogi Namikiri for 30 seconds would do that. Making Shinten less spammable through costing more Kenki resource is another. BUT any of this should only be done, if they have a completed Samurai skill kit tested and ready to go. What they did in 6.1 is lazy.

Potency Adjustments
The fantasy of Samurai, prepping, and casting big hitting attacks. This job identity means a lot for many. Thus, I prefer diverting potencies away from Combo fillers and smaller (O)GCD's, and channel them to our say Combo Finishers and hard hitting attacks, not the other way around

Quality of Life changes
Yaten / Enhanced Enpi / Gyoten casting more fluently, rewarding players for the combo action though not so much regular Enpi. Third Eye was a good change, it definitely made it more friendly to use. And I agree ranged skills not consuming Meikyo charges was also really good.

Tenka Goken 6.1
I hate this change so much " I stopped doing dungeons ever since testing it once ". What was once a complex satisfying execution of darting in and out with thought out positioning for maximum damage, has now devolved into circular everything braindead with bonus minus IQ points with no Kaiten. Aesthetically making it look like I fart blades sideways and from my ass is another insult to how Lazy this was. And this is without complaining about it not Auto-Critting. This change is the Nr1 reason I stopped doing Dungeons.

Overall very good feedback, I gave it a Like. I will add it to the " Compiled SAM " feedback thread. tyvm for sharing. /easternbow

[Zeretus]

Thank you very much, appreciate the response a lot!

The Button Bloat issue
I have difficulties even finding the Button Bloat issue?

Personally, with how my keybinds are set up, 33 actions is a perfect number for me, no more, no less. However as far as I'm aware it's less comfortable to play on a gamepad due to the limited amount of possible keybinds, so I guess that might be the reason. And of course making space for future additions as well.

The Action Bloat issue
turning Kaiten into a Potency/Crit/Auto-Crit buff applying to all Iaijutsu casts and Ogi Namikiri for 30 seconds would do that.

I actually enjoyed playing around with the idea of Kaiten giving autocrits, but like I said, unless they resolve the concern of crit buffs first, we end up sacrificing job synergy, which is especially painful with Samurai being a raw dps oriented job. (You can already encounter difficulties finding a group pushing high-end content as a samurai in the current iteration)

Quality of Life changes
Yaten / Enhanced Enpi / Gyoten casting more fluently, rewarding players for the combo action though not so much regular Enpi.

I'm a little bit on the fence when it comes to utility tools having the same potency per kenki as your main ogcd filler. While it does provide them some depth for optimisation purposes, incorporating them as a consistent part of your rotation doesn't really entice me a lot. Especially considering risks involved using them outside of intended scenarios. So I think that's something they should be mindful of moving forward.

[CelestiCer]

Thank you very much, appreciate the response a lot!

I can imagine gamepad issues, hence the proposals I made. But there are plenty and many others who suggested other types of solutions. I genuinely want Kaiten back... As for Auto-Crits, I am not a parser or a competitive raider to want optimized Comps? though I also notice it that Samurai's get puhsed out of groups and that isn't a good thing I agree with that.

As well with Gyoten weaving.. .such a big oversight on their end to have it's Kenki potency match Shinten. I'll take it? to somewhat fill the void of Kaiten removal? but the QoL of casting it back to back would feel really nice since there's a big pause for Enpi/Enhanced Enpi that I find a lack of reasoning to really use it or even existing out of being niche. I do want this to feel more fluidly flowing? but not that it overrules old Kaiten and Shinten cause it would be difficult to incorperate this into fights where we would require to back dash for optimized damage output yes.