Remove all Rewards from Losing in Frontlines

[Deveryn]

Casual is all well and good. I'm not trying to go hardcore. I just want there to be people that at least give af in the slightest. If they even adjusted rewards to encourage actual participation, it would go a long way towards helping things. All of the rewards for coming in 3rd should be less than that of coming in 1st.

[OinOdin]

Currently, the biggest problem with FL is that they are unbalanced. Not in terms of job abilities but in reward points. There should be a bigger incentive to do objectives and fight for them and a lower reward for killing (losing points for dying should stay).
+ UI isn't clear enough for casual players to get a quick grasp of the situation. There need to be a similar UI element as in CC with will show score and nice transparent minimap + different pin system than <flaf> with we use currently

[Genz]

Not remove completely, but yes rewards need to be tied to personal and team performance.

First, to prune the leechers/griefers, players that can't reach some damage/heal/battle high threshold should get no reward. Excessive KO should be penalised.
(healing can easily be padded and doesn't mean the player actually participated, and since now everyone is a damage dealer, it could depend only on damage)

Also it doesn't have to be xp/tomestones. For example the winning team and/or players that reach BH5 could earn 1 "Second chance" in Wondrous Tails.

[Mistress_Irika]

It's gotten a whole lot easier to kill people. Why would you want to add a penalty after reaching a certain number of deaths?

[Droxybrobotnik]

...So, you want everyone who do their dailies to lose xp to rng? You do realize most have limited time in their day? And that the fault is on Square for locking so much xp behind a game mode far from everybody are even interested in?
Do you like to have full teams and not having 2/3 quit as soon as one side is dominating? Then you like frontline! I for one would love if it got axed from roulettes and the reward from the rest upped instead, but then we might have underpopulated frontline...
but if that happens then maybe it isn't such a great mode?

[IDontPetLalas]

Not remove completely, but yes rewards need to be tied to personal and team performance.

First, to prune the leechers/griefers, players that can't reach some damage/heal/battle high threshold should get no reward. Excessive KO should be penalised.
(healing can easily be padded and doesn't mean the player actually participated, and since now everyone is a damage dealer, it could depend only on damage)

Also it doesn't have to be xp/tomestones. For example the winning team and/or players that reach BH5 could earn 1 "Second chance" in Wondrous Tails.

1- You prune leechers or griefers by either kicking them and/or reporting them- not by penalizing everyone else - and before you state that people can't be kicked from Frontline- I realize it isn't perfect , however it can be done.

2- How would you even define the limit for "excessive" KO? I think what you are trying to do is eliminate bots or people are just running into the enemy camp or otherwise kill trading - again- report them and move on. We likely need a better PVP report option.

3- I don't see a problem necessarily with XP and tomestones, it's more than the UI, in game map, and rewards for 1st, 2nd and 3rd might need some changes. I don't like the idea of substituting Wondrous Tails personally.

3-

[AbysmalDuck]

It's gotten a whole lot easier to kill people. Why would you want to add a penalty after reaching a certain number of deaths?

Because people still run in and die just to make it end quicker. Plus, with the damage increase, people are still doing pre-6.1 damage. On BLM, pre-6.1, I was doing 250-300k damage. This to some people is still low, but I'm seeing people now do 100k routinely.

[AbysmalDuck]

...So, you want everyone who do their dailies to lose xp to rng? You do realize most have limited time in their day? And that the fault is on Square for locking so much xp behind a game mode far from everybody are even interested in?
Do you like to have full teams and not having 2/3 quit as soon as one side is dominating? Then you like frontline! I for one would love if it got axed from roulettes and the reward from the rest upped instead, but then we might have underpopulated frontline...
but if that happens then maybe it isn't such a great mode?

The biggest problem with this generation of gamers (or the public in general) is the blaming of someone else for doing something wrong or not having a moral conscious. SE made it easy to get rewards while I do nothing, so guess I'm jump on the blame train.

[Esmoire]

I think, at a basic level, while it won't solve the problem, some good marketing would help.

Currently, a lot of people actually don't even know you get twice the reward for a first place VS a third. A lot of the people are just there for their daily, a static amount before match rewards, which is true, but I think if they knew they could get way more, they would try.

I also think the achievements are bad psychology. Inherently, there is nothing wrong with the mounts that require 100 wins. You can crassly rationalize it as 300 matches. It's actually realistically less due to capability as a player increasing and thus match influence increasing VS newer players losing more often, but I disgress. On the other hand, if it was, say second places count, and first places count for 2 wins., but the goal post was 250 or whatever, ultimately people would feel better. Look at how we even word first place as a "win", but we count second places a "loss". Just celebrating second places more would help a lot.

Unfortunately, in a game like FFXIV where you usually always win in all other environments, PvP does a good job of reminding people that in life, there are a whole lot of losers, and that's reality. PvP especially highlights competition, and competition highlights the haves and have-nots. I think pity rewards in PvP overall lead to a healthier environment than the detriment of people abusing the system... That said some more moderation to punish this behaviour would be ideal.

[Mistress_Irika]

Because people still run in and die just to make it end quicker. Plus, with the damage increase, people are still doing pre-6.1 damage. On BLM, pre-6.1, I was doing 250-300k damage. This to some people is still low, but I'm seeing people now do 100k routinely.

I'm pretty sure that you still have very few that afks in or near home base as well. It doesnt change the fact that it's gotten easier to kill. You're better off worrying about yourself and leading with the damage dealing if you're looking for wins. Worrying about how the other players does isn't going to change the amount of RNG that's currently there.