Unranked to Diamond in 7 hours

[Deceptus]

Not necessarily true as total damage dealt can be padded.

Every point of damage caused needs to be healed and that causes a waste of resources / opportunity cost elsewhere.

[Iyrnwaen]

Every point of damage caused needs to be healed and that causes a waste of resources / opportunity cost elsewhere.

This really isn't a winning argument in the context of CC. It's the farthest thing imaginable from an attrition model.
With the ready availability of healing resources to all jobs, non-lethal damage in combat has very little opportunity cost associated with it,
and non-lethal damage outside of combat has no opportunity cost whatsoever.
Dealing 36k damage to one target is better than doing 72k spread over 3 targets.
Dealing 36k damage in 6s and then doing nothing for 6s because your target is dead is better than doing 54k damage over 12s.
You can top damage every match playing Fire BLM, and the meter will keep telling you the losses weren't your fault.

[LeonKeyh]

Every point of damage caused needs to be healed and that causes a waste of resources / opportunity cost elsewhere.

Sure, but if you continue to break everything down to resource cost you'll see what I'm talking about.

If we sit there and burst down and stun a single player with, let's say 50,000. Let's say they get 1 heal through so we deal 65,000 total to that player. They also lost 7,500 MP which is another 45,000 hp that isn't going to show up on the damage chart at the end of the match. It also removes that person and the damage/healing/buffing that they're doing for 15-20 seconds.

On the flip side, let's say they get all 4 heals out, then manage to break LOS and use a standard issue elixir. You're putting up 110,000 damage from the person, but only removing them from the fight for 6-8 seconds.


The top scenario is clearly the "better" one, but only results in 65,000 damage on the chart. PLUS, almost 20 seconds before you can start dealing damage again to that player. Whereas the bottom one gives you almost twice as much damage AND less "downtime" to be able to do more damage so you can basically pad your numbers even quicker. That's also ignoring other resources that you're likely taking away in the first example; Did they die with cooldowns available? Did they die with a buff on their character?

Most scenarios are going to fall between these two scenarios, but I'm just explaining how "Damage Dealt" isn't the "end all be all" statistic to determine how someone has performed in a match. That being said, someone who did 1/3-1/4 of the damage that everyone else on their team did likely did play poorly while someone who did 2x-3x of the damage of their team likely did contribute a lot. But it's not cut and dry; The person that did the most didn't necessarily have the most impact. The person that did the least didn't necessarily have the least impact.

Especially with CC being as prevalent and strong as it is. Using a GCD for a well timed stun could be the difference between scenario 1 and 2, but won't cause you to gain as much damage on the scoreboard. That stun could cause that player to lose out on the 45,000 HP worth of heals from the 7,500 MP they have left, but that person isn't going to get that on their scoreboard.

[Shizzle]

Sounds like random luck you got lucky to climb that quickly in those 7hours. Myself am trying to climb out of silver with great difficulty when majority of the random derps you get matched with can't for the life of them focus fire on designated targets to focus down first let alone push a crystal. Im finding PvP trash tier in here there are better mmo's with more entertaining competitive PvP for this and pvp in general to get to a esport level in FFXIV there's alot of things need fixing and I just don't see it happening even though I do enjoy a good competitive pvp mode.

[Petite]

Sounds like random luck you got lucky to climb that quickly in those 7hours. Myself am trying to climb out of silver with great difficulty when majority of the random derps you get matched with can't for the life of them focus fire on designated targets to focus down first let alone push a crystal. Im finding PvP trash tier in here there are better mmo's with more entertaining competitive PvP for this and pvp in general to get to a esport level in FFXIV there's alot of things need fixing and I just don't see it happening even though I do enjoy a good competitive pvp mode.

How many ranked wins do you have?

[Gserpent]

Crowd Control is just too much. You'll Purge the first stun, only to get Polymorphed or silenced right afterwards, making you unable to guard for 5 seconds (happened a lot). Stuns, silences and polymorphs have no diminishing returns, are not fun and are way too widespread among jobs. They should change Melee stuns to slows and remove WHM's stun from Afflatus Purgation for a bind. Finally, they must color DRG's Ultimate differently for better visibility.

CC is fine. You have Guard for a reason. Purify will bail you out but it won't protect you from chains of CC, and it's not intended to. If you get chain CC'd into the dirt, that just means they outplayed you. Don't expose yourself like you did and it won't happen again. Sometimes your teammates can help - BRD and WHM have cleanse, etc.

Melee stuns are fine. WHM stun on LB is fine, the nerf wasn't really called for. Coloring DRG LB more vividly would be nice, but you should be watching enemy party list anyway - if the DRG is grayed out and has an empty LB gauge, they are in the air and you need to move (or Guard.)

Amusingly, folks like you actually prove how little rank/tier means in the ranked mode. Because it takes so few games to rank up and streak bonuses exist (and you can't lose a tier once you reach it), people can pretty much just brute force their way to higher ranks and rely on win streaks. Hell, even most people in top 100 aren't really that good (on Crystal, there are a few names in top 20-30 that are among the worst players I see consistently.) Add to that, without any kind of class-specific ranking, it's even less useful. I'm a strong SCH and WHM, but if someone made me play SAM we'd probably lose eight games out of ten while I flail around mindlessly. Yet you'll see people in Crystal clearly playing classes they have no knowledge of (as in, a RPR getting under 150k dmg and going 0-8 compared to the WHM and SCH both hitting over 400k with no deaths.) As far as I'm concerned, that's griefing if we're talking about Ranked mode - you should be playing to win and doing your best, and intentionally playing a class you're ignorant of goes against that. But it's not strictly against TOS and would be impossible to enforce fairly so... meh, whatever.

The mode needs some work, and I think Ranked just needs to be discarded entirely because it just breeds toxicity and salt for no good reason. But overall I think it's quite good and I really enjoy the revamp.

[Shizzle]

So far 42 wins. I’m trying to climb out silver but I run into a lot teams I’m put with where I lose ranking due most of the team not focusing targets. It’s hard to do with so little communication, it seems ALOT of of folks ignore markings like “1” or 2

[Lymberey]

it seems ALOT of of folks ignore markings like “1” or 2

It is rough in Silver and Gold. I stuck there for quite sometime. Once you reach Plat, it improves, but there will still be people who ignore markers.

[Shizzle]

It is rough in Silver and Gold. I stuck there for quite sometime. Once you reach Plat, it improves, but there will still be people who ignore markers.

Oof I’ll keep on trying then!

[Gserpent]

This really isn't a winning argument in the context of CC. It's the farthest thing imaginable from an attrition model.
With the ready availability of healing resources to all jobs, non-lethal damage in combat has very little opportunity cost associated with it,
and non-lethal damage outside of combat has no opportunity cost whatsoever.
Dealing 36k damage to one target is better than doing 72k spread over 3 targets.
Dealing 36k damage in 6s and then doing nothing for 6s because your target is dead is better than doing 54k damage over 12s.
You can top damage every match playing Fire BLM, and the meter will keep telling you the losses weren't your fault.

What are you talking about? Healing is a huge opportunity cost. Target priority in CC is pretty much always "the person without any mana left" because you know they can't heal much and heals from healers and other classes are more like backwards damage mitigation than actual healing. If DoT's and other incidental damage cause someone to heal, that means they're at 3/4 instead of 4/4. Bursting people down with CC is unreliable because of Guard and Purify (although server tickrate and latency can get you kills... christ knows I've died a few times while mashing Guard only for it to just not activate until after I was dead... instance servers seem to struggle with handling the number of games running during prime time on weekends), so it tends to be about attrition. Against good players, anyway. CC'ing someone is generally how you can force out a bunch of heals in quick succession, but a 25k DoT will leave a lot of classes at less than half HP if they don't heal.

Sure, you can pop a potion, but that's a 5 sec cast on top of needing to move to a place where it won't be interrupted, and then moving back to the fight. That's obviously a lot of time to make a move, and DoT effects tend to have 100% uptime if you want it. People undervalue DoT's and discard it as damage padding because they don't really grasp how much CC is actually about attrition. Burst doesn't work if the players on the other team are paying attention and are competent. If it did, 5 DPS teams would be dominant... but instead they tend to lose quite badly to more balanced teams, and 3-healer teams (particularly SCH AST SGE) are actually extremely strong because of their ability to mitigate and cause attrition.