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  1. #51
    Player
    HyperiusUltima's Avatar
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    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,423
    Character
    Eileen White
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim View Post
    I don't get these hyper exotic takes like "remove it because its as useless as anatman" or how giving it a dash or more range (or making it like Dragon Sight) is somehow going to make it better. Let me line out the actual issue again:

    Cover currently costs the same gauge of your vastly superior defensives (Holy Sheltron and Intervention) for basically providing a semi cheesy redirect when aimed at DPS at best and a bad Provoke at worst.

    Solutions:
    A) Remove the Gauge cost or:
    B) Grant Paladin the effect of Sheltron / Holy Sheltron upon use or:
    C) Give Cover its own mitigation justifying the gauge cost somewhat

    This isn't rocket science people.
    We recommend removing it because of one fact, in case you glossed over the few pages.

    Cover. Does. Not. Interact. With. Mitigation. This alone makes Cover nigh useless except fringe situations where you’re desperate. When the devs saw Kefka’s TBs get smashed by Hallowed and Cover and kept the main tank safe they decided to slash any interaction with our defensive kit. At this point, they literally should just give it back to us so we can be the “Utility Tank” we’re supposedly labeled as instead of having a dead button 99% of the time.
    (1)
    Last edited by HyperiusUltima; 02-18-2023 at 03:09 AM.

  2. #52
    Player
    Reinhardt_Azureheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,589
    Character
    Reinhardt Azureheim
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima View Post
    We recommend removing it because of one fact, in case you glossed over the few pages.

    Cover. Does. Not. Interact. With. Mitigation. This alone makes Cover nigh useless except fringe situations where you’re desperate. When the devs saw Kefka’s TBs get smashed by Hallowed and Cover and kept the main tank safe they decided to slash any interaction with our defensive kit. At this point, they literally should just give it back to us so we can be the “Utility Tank” we’re supposedly labeled as instead of having a dead button 99% of the time.
    This (the highlighted part) is plain wrong. Cover interacts with the mitigation used by / applied on the Paladin who reroutes the damage with it to itself. Cover essentially just changes the target where damage calculation and application is handled. So if the assumption is "it doesn't interact with target's mitigation" then yeah that is correct, as it should be.

    I too raided in Sigmascape and was playing Paladin for the better half of it. Paladin's mitigation alone was pretty much superb (in Sigmascape assuming you started with an i340 Genji Shield or i350 HQ Nightsteel Shield) with a starting Block Power of 26-27%, Sentinel's 40% mitigation and a solid fluff mitigation with Bulwark. So even without Cover, Paladin was strong even if simple in mitigation. So Cover having received the extra mitigation at Lv66 and having no cost other than the cooldown is what made it so busted. As we both know, it turned it essentially into a 2nd/3rd Rampart that you could layer up with even more mitigation except Hallowed Ground of course.

    My point still stands - Cover in the current version is a shell of what it was and should receive one of the fixes I listed. They are simple and would all do the trick to turn it from "barely useful in extreme niche moments" to "could actually use this on occasion or plan with your team around it".
    (1)

  3. #53
    Player
    TouchandFeel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,835
    Character
    Vespereaux Vaillantes
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 91
    Cover should stay and not be gotten rid of since it is the iconic Paladin/Knight ability in the series, the problem with it is that it got watered down over time and was essentially "replaced" in terms of what it's usage could have been by Intervention.
    They simply need to "fix" it by changing it and making it have more worth and usability as a party defensive.

    Just an off-the-cuff idea for reworking it to make it more worthwhile ...

    Cover - Lvl.58 (switches places with Clemency) - Ability - Instant - 120s recast - 30y range
    Effect: Creates a barrier around target party member that absorbs damage equivalent to 15% of your maximum HP - duration: 30s
    Grants the effect of Communion to the Paladin when the barrier is completely absorbed.
    Communion effect: Allows the next Clemency to be cast immediately and with no MP cost.
    (1)

  4. #54
    Player
    Mikey_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,534
    Character
    Mike Aettir
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TouchandFeel View Post
    Cover should stay and not be gotten rid of since it is the iconic Paladin/Knight ability in the series, the problem with it is that it got watered down over time and was essentially "replaced" in terms of what it's usage could have been by Intervention.
    They simply need to "fix" it by changing it and making it have more worth and usability as a party defensive.

    Just an off-the-cuff idea for reworking it to make it more worthwhile ...

    Cover - Lvl.58 (switches places with Clemency) - Ability - Instant - 120s recast - 30y range
    Effect: Creates a barrier around target party member that absorbs damage equivalent to 15% of your maximum HP - duration: 30s
    Grants the effect of Communion to the Paladin when the barrier is completely absorbed.
    Communion effect: Allows the next Clemency to be cast immediately and with no MP cost.
    So, you want to make it Intervention, but different? Rather than % mitigation, it is a shield and instead of a regen, it is a free Clemency. Don't see the point to be honest.
    (3)

  5. #55
    Player
    dspguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,667
    Character
    Jain Farstrider
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 100
    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I use HG and Cover for "fun" in dungeons like MSQ. Lots of bosses do the same thing - tankbuster followed by group stack soak. I usually pop HG and then cover with sentinel up and reprisal up. Healer takes no damage and I take not much damage. However, it probably doesn't buy the healer much. They probably still pop the same AOE heal regardless to get the two DPS. I still think it is fun.

    As for Cover, in most instances it has limited use. Personally, I think the current gauge for PLD is pretty bad. It just grows at a set rate but is only tied to defensive abilities. I guess it "fits" PLD, but it lacks what the other tanks and DPS have: that joy of utilizing your gauge for every job's real purpose... DPS. In 7.0, rework PLD to use the gauge in a different way and just change cover to not be tied to the gauge at all. Maybe keep it the way it is otherwise just for the RP value of a PLD being able to cover.
    (0)

  6. #56
    Player
    elioaiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    441
    Character
    Junhee Hatsuharu
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 94
    I remember it was considered "broken" during SB era. It was really cool for Paladins to cover a healer during Tsuku Ex phase change so they can pre heal.

    And I think the idea of sharing/splitting damage between two tanks is cool. But they made it to where some bosses auto attacks the other tank too.
    (0)

  7. #57
    Player
    Daeriion_Aeradiir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    601
    Character
    Daeriion Aeradiir
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Cover is in such an odd place in that pretty much anything it might try to accomplish, Intervention does it better and with less risk due to the damage transference interacting with stuff like vulns. Rather than trying to make cover try and compete with Intervention, it should ideally be made into its own thing. Either that, or just drop the gauge cost and let it be a niche skill that can sometimes have a 500 IQ play. Not like most of its SB uses could really come back again, basically every buster slaps a magic vuln now or strikes both tanks making most of Cover's SB infamy useless in the modern day.

    Personally, I've always liked the idea of reworking Cover to be the PLD's equivalent of Synastry from AST to keep in line the idea that you're supporting someone:

    Cover: Grants you the effect of Cover, and your target Knight's Cover. (60-120s) recast. no gauge cost.
    Cover: Gradually restore HP equivalent to 200 cure potency. If you are within 5y of the target of Knight's Cover, this effect is granted to them as well. Duration: 12s
    Knight's Cover: Any HP restored on the PLD or the target of Knight's cover will also affect the other at 50% the healing's value. Any healing received from the spell 'Clemency' is (increased by 50% or 100%) on the target of Knight's Cover. Duration: (12-15s)

    In dungeons, it would just be effectively a weaker Aurora so it wouldn't be a dead skill in packs, but also retain emergency applications like putting it onto someone in danger and then slamming them with a Clemency for a titanic amount of HP to save a run/prevent a death like the current cover does in fringe cases.
    In trials/extremes/savages/ultimates/etc, in addition to its emergency cases, it would also be an extra CD to use in situations where both tanks are taking high amounts of damage like in Abyssos, or in situations where the group is getting slammed by lots of aoe damage but there's autos/tank damage/etc going on simultaneously, like P8s Apoinopyr -> autos or DSR's towers where the PLD & their target could double dip off of raid heals.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    So, you want to make it Intervention, but different? Rather than % mitigation, it is a shield and instead of a regen, it is a free Clemency. Don't see the point to be honest.
    With the limited ways skills in FF14 can operate given the combat, anything Cover could realistically be changed to that wouldn't make it a niche skill would just be <insert skill> but different. The question more becomes if you want to make it a more oftenly used aspect of the PLD's kit, what skill do you make it copy to make it usable while still retaining some sense of thematic-ness? Making Cover intervention but different wouldn't be such an odd idea to me, since it would give PLD an interesting dynamic where they can use their 100 gauge to either:

    -Shelltron + Inter
    -Forgo shelltron if they believe any combination of rampart/sentinel/bulwark could cover the damage, and double layer their co-tank with Inter + Cover.
    -Double layer their co-tank in the event of using Hallowed while their co-tank brute force mits.

    Instead of the current static 'save up 100, shelltron + inter each time with only the very odd fringe case like P1 TEA / P6 DSR where you have to be picky and choose how you use the gauge'.
    (2)
    Last edited by Daeriion_Aeradiir; 02-20-2023 at 11:40 AM.

  8. #58
    Player
    Derio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    3,384
    Character
    Derio Uzumaki
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Remove gauge cost. Increase cooldown. Increase tether range by 10 yalms.
    (0)

  9. #59
    Player
    Canadane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    7,502
    Character
    King Canadane
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    I needs to be able to be used much more often, and at a longer range.
    (0)

    http://king.canadane.com

  10. #60
    Player
    Nobuyuki_Sanada's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    103
    Character
    A'lamahni Naweh
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    The idea I've seen that I favor is to turn it into a toggle ability similar to a dance partner. If you choose a healer to cover, then you receive increased healing from that source. This would inevitably be the option you choose when running dungeons or small group content. When cover is applied to a tank you can activate other abilities (new) that would be shared between the two tanks. Perhaps a %max health shield or a increased block/parry chance for a limited time.

    I also played with the idea of giving the other tanks a cover equivalent so they can link to other players. Get rid of tank stance, instead have every tank generate enmity as if it was permanently on. When you apply cover (or your tank's version) it would pass off all enmity to your target and all enmity generated is passed off. This would turn provoke, tank stance, and shirk all into 1 easy button. You would still have to coordinate when to activate said skills but it would be simpler to execute. Alliances kinda fudge with this idea though, unless they let us cover people in other alliances.
    (2)

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