Dragonsong Ultimate Lore [Save Haurchefant version] Discussion

[MercuryD]

I took it more as for people visiting the *forums* who might not yet have reached that point in the storyline.

Yeah, I don't agree with the spoiler title but...

[Cleretic]

The Ascians just liked keeping irons in the fire for both instability reasons and as potential Calmaity-causers. Ifrit might cause a potential fire-based Calamity sometime, but even if it doesn't it still keeps the flames of discord burning that they can exploit in other ways.

They probably didn't orchestrate Bismarck's summoning for any specific plan, they just figured that if someday they need an island-eating bird whale, it's better if one's already there to make use of than if they suddenly see a use for one and there's none handy.

[EdwinLi]

The Ascians just liked keeping irons in the fire for both instability reasons and as potential Calmaity-causers. Ifrit might cause a potential fire-based Calamity sometime, but even if it doesn't it still keeps the flames of discord burning that they can exploit in other ways.

They probably didn't orchestrate Bismarck's summoning for any specific plan, they just figured that if someday they need an island-eating bird whale, it's better if one's already there to make use of than if they suddenly see a use for one and there's none handy.

Well the Ascian's plans were not very grand in design to begin with on the Source.

It was literally cause enough CHAOS to trigger a Calamity so a joining can happen with a Shard and Source once a shard is ready to rejoin the source. It did not matter what chaos caused it as long it was chaotic enough to trigger a calamity.

At this point I think we need a Chaos Knight Job to go full Jack Garland in FF14 storyline because so much chaos keeps happening around the world that needs a good beating to stop. In season 2 case, probably another set of new antagonists trying to spread chaos on each Shards and the Source just to achieve their goals as long that chaos brings the desired results.

[Cleretic]

Yeah, we weren't motivated by something as base and simple as revenge. We were motivated by something as base and simple as 'kill the obvious bad guys', and we were picking fights with Thordan and his knights for a whole dungeon before Haurchefant decided he could block Dragonslayer Ornstein's attack.

I thought one of the big tentpoles of why Haurchefant's death affected people was specifically because it was senseless and needless death. Making it out to be part of someone's grand scheme kills that as dead as the man himself.

(Although let's be real, we all know that the real reason we mourn him is because he's the first death who could've been shipped with the WoL; we lost Minfilia, Moenbryda and Wilred before him, but there weren't romantic undertones with the protagonist about them.)

[Alleo]

(Although let's be real, we all know that the real reason we mourn him is because he's the first death who could've been shipped with the WoL; we lost Minfilia, Moenbryda and Wilred before him, but there weren't romantic undertones with the protagonist about them.)

I felt sad with Moen too but still mostly angry that they killed of one of the few interesting scions. (Thankfully they fleshed the rest out more with Shadowbringers)

Next to being husbando material Haurchefant was also one of the first people that threated us like a human being. In my view at least. He was nice from the start and it became even better after we saved his friend. There is even quest text where they told us that he had to be restrained by several men because he wanted to help us out with Shiva. It was so very refreshing, especially compared to the behavior of the scions.

And then in Heavensward he did even more for us and eventhough our other friends have no problems with sacrificing their lives for a greater cause he simply did it to save us.

All of that together (plus the "having the hots for the WoL") made him into a friend that our Wol deeply mourned for.

And SE the devils understood that a portion of the fanbase really liked him and now makes us suffer even more by including him in this Ultimate.

[Tehmon]

I felt sad with Moen too but still mostly angry that they killed of one of the few interesting scions. (Thankfully they fleshed the rest out more with Shadowbringers)

Next to being husbando material Haurchefant was also one of the first people that threated us like a human being. In my view at least. He was nice from the start and it became even better after we saved his friend. There is even quest text where they told us that he had to be restrained by several men because he wanted to help us out with Shiva. It was so very refreshing, especially compared to the behavior of the scions.

And then in Heavensward he did even more for us and eventhough our other friends have no problems with sacrificing their lives for a greater cause he simply did it to save us.

All of that together (plus the "having the hots for the WoL") made him into a friend that our Wol deeply mourned for.

And SE the devils understood that a portion of the fanbase really liked him and now makes us suffer even more by including him in this Ultimate.

My thoughts exactly.

It's also noteworthy that Haurchefant was just a guy. He didn't need to go to the lengths that he did for the WoL, yet he did so anyway because he was looking out for us and appreciated us greatly, not as a tool or as just a hero, but as a friend and someone he grow to be extremely fond of (even romantically). He wasn't exceptionally gifted, he wasn't a scion, he wasn't out to save the world, yet he was there for us nevertheless. And this is partly why his death hurts as much as it did, because it feels as if we stringed him, someone completely innocent, along and that our carelessness and cockiness is to blame for his death, a completely senseless death that could've been avoided, only to be reminded by Edmont that a knight lives to serve, and Haurchefant did just that.

It was a personal hit on WoL, the first one at that.

[RyuDragnier]

It was a personal hit on WoL, the first one at that.

Which is why Thordon got destroyed like he did. He did the only thing no primal has ever done in the game...he made it personal.

[Vyrerus]

I felt sad with Moen too but still mostly angry that they killed of one of the few interesting scions. (Thankfully they fleshed the rest out more with Shadowbringers)

Next to being husbando material Haurchefant was also one of the first people that threated us like a human being. In my view at least. He was nice from the start and it became even better after we saved his friend. There is even quest text where they told us that he had to be restrained by several men because he wanted to help us out with Shiva. It was so very refreshing, especially compared to the behavior of the scions.

And then in Heavensward he did even more for us and eventhough our other friends have no problems with sacrificing their lives for a greater cause he simply did it to save us.

All of that together (plus the "having the hots for the WoL") made him into a friend that our Wol deeply mourned for.

And SE the devils understood that a portion of the fanbase really liked him and now makes us suffer even more by including him in this Ultimate.

When I first met Haurchefant and he was warm and amicable to the WoL I knew he had scriptwriter's doom. It took a couple years, but I did slam my fist on my desk when it happened.

The real reason Haurchefant died though, was because the side cast for the WoL in Heavensward had to be discarded by the end of 3.0 to make room for the return of the Scions. This is why Ysayle had to sacrifice herself to the dreadnaught. This is why Estinien is possessed by Nidhogg.

Stormblood handled the side cast similarly. Albeit a little differently since there were more of them, but more or less... Lyse leaves the Scions at the end. Yugiri returns to Lord Hien's service full time. Gosetsu goes down with Doma Castle and is presumed dead.

Shadowbringers is the first time nothing happens to disbar the side cast, because it's the Scions, though I suppose you could count Emet-selch if you wanted.

(Also when I say side cast I guess I mean traveling companions.)

[Denishia]

Hey I was heartbroken about Wilred more than any MSQ death bar Ysayle and still am to this day

Though as pointed out elsewhere, perhaps the divergence is as simple as Thordan not name-dropping Azys Lla as he leaves this time.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Yeah, we weren't motivated by something as base and simple as revenge. We were motivated by something as base and simple as 'kill the obvious bad guys', and we were picking fights with Thordan and his knights for a whole dungeon before Haurchefant decided he could block Dragonslayer Ornstein's attack.

I thought one of the big tentpoles of why Haurchefant's death affected people was specifically because it was senseless and needless death. Making it out to be part of someone's grand scheme kills that as dead as the man himself.

(Although let's be real, we all know that the real reason we mourn him is because he's the first death who could've been shipped with the WoL; we lost Minfilia, Moenbryda and Wilred before him, but there weren't romantic undertones with the protagonist about them.)

Speak for yourself, my friend. Wilred was a good boi who deserved to live, dammit!

I'd romance him, hehe~

Hey I was heartbroken about Wilred more than any MSQ death bar Ysayle and still am to this day

Though as pointed out elsewhere, perhaps the divergence is as simple as Thordan not name-dropping Azys Lla as he leaves this time.

Denishia's got the right idea.